Question again - maybe others besides Young will reply
05-06-2002, 02:22 PM
#21
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OK - Here is the word to the wise (but I bet you won't listen)
Run away! Run away Now! Run away as fast as you can!
Your 5 figure expenditure is nothing. There is still time to save yourself from the financial abyss. First you track your car (I had a '96 993). Then you want more (I sold it and got a TT). Then that is not enough (I added gobs of HP, suspension, etc, etc, etc). Then you need more thrills (I bought a race car). Then you need support for the bigger thrills (Diesel Excursion, trailer, more tools, spare parts). Then since you have all the support, you can get even more thrills (I ordered another race car). But the support isn't quite enough (I need a lift in the trailer).
Been there, done that. Like I said... Run Away. Save yourself, it is too late for the rest of us.
Now, does even one single person on this board think jyoteen will heed this advice? Does anyone really beleive he should?
Your 5 figure expenditure is nothing. There is still time to save yourself from the financial abyss. First you track your car (I had a '96 993). Then you want more (I sold it and got a TT). Then that is not enough (I added gobs of HP, suspension, etc, etc, etc). Then you need more thrills (I bought a race car). Then you need support for the bigger thrills (Diesel Excursion, trailer, more tools, spare parts). Then since you have all the support, you can get even more thrills (I ordered another race car). But the support isn't quite enough (I need a lift in the trailer).
Been there, done that. Like I said... Run Away. Save yourself, it is too late for the rest of us.
Now, does even one single person on this board think jyoteen will heed this advice? Does anyone really beleive he should?
05-06-2002, 02:26 PM
#22
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hehe. Too late. I'm already asking the realtors to restrict house searches
based on flat driveways and tall (lift installation possible) garages. It's too late.
And the worse part is, Today I read that the VW SUV will come with a V10 diesel and I instantly thought....trailer ready.
:-)
And the worse part is, Today I read that the VW SUV will come with a V10 diesel and I instantly thought....trailer ready.
:-)
05-06-2002, 03:10 PM
#25
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Unfortunately, there's a difference between what makes sense...
...and what will sell.
A $1000 for a day at a DE in a track car is very a hard sell, regardless of the real costs of tracking. But if it were $250/day and you supply your own gas, be your own crew, and pay for the wear-and-tear and damage at certain agreed-upon rate, it be a much easier sell I think.
By the way, I understand these are the going rates for driving someone else's E36 M3 in an enduro here in California:
$200 per hour of racing
$50 per hour additional if you use the owner's tires and brakes
~$150 for the drive to and from the track (Bay Area to Buttonwillow)
The driver is responsible for gas, all damage, etc.
If you wreck the car you buy it at a price agreed ahead of time.
A $1000 for a day at a DE in a track car is very a hard sell, regardless of the real costs of tracking. But if it were $250/day and you supply your own gas, be your own crew, and pay for the wear-and-tear and damage at certain agreed-upon rate, it be a much easier sell I think.
By the way, I understand these are the going rates for driving someone else's E36 M3 in an enduro here in California:
$200 per hour of racing
$50 per hour additional if you use the owner's tires and brakes
~$150 for the drive to and from the track (Bay Area to Buttonwillow)
The driver is responsible for gas, all damage, etc.
If you wreck the car you buy it at a price agreed ahead of time.
05-06-2002, 04:21 PM
#27
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There are some parts of this I don't understand
Not really pertinent to the original question, but interesting anyway.
Why do many clubs in your area ban prepped cars? The only things required to make a car "race prepped" are the safety items; cage, fire bottle, 5/6 point belts. These are safer cars for the track so why ban them? FYI - I have not seen such a ban with any clubs in CA (not to say some don't have this rule, I have personally not seen it).
On a similar note, why would you ban a person simply because they brought a race prepped car (e.g. The Showroom stock car you mention) but allow a 400hp Porsche Turbo or Viper?
Finally, I don't get your point regarding renting cars. Are you saying the kind of cars I listed do not belong at DE's or is your message something else?
Why do many clubs in your area ban prepped cars? The only things required to make a car "race prepped" are the safety items; cage, fire bottle, 5/6 point belts. These are safer cars for the track so why ban them? FYI - I have not seen such a ban with any clubs in CA (not to say some don't have this rule, I have personally not seen it).
On a similar note, why would you ban a person simply because they brought a race prepped car (e.g. The Showroom stock car you mention) but allow a 400hp Porsche Turbo or Viper?
Finally, I don't get your point regarding renting cars. Are you saying the kind of cars I listed do not belong at DE's or is your message something else?
05-06-2002, 04:42 PM
#28
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Thank you
Very well thought out comments - your issues are exactly the ones I share, especially the liability side. California is somewhat unique in that we can run all year - there are far more track days to rent a car than in other parts of the country so this makes more sense here than in most other places - from the revenue perspective. The real issue is whether a few DE participants per event would want to rent a prepped car and be willing to pay what it costs to put a car on the track.
Some of the comments here show that participants do not know the real costs they incur by tracking their cars, nor do they want to. Treating it on an incremental basis, with the costs spread over time makes it less terrifying.
I suspect I will make the SRF available for rent. The SR3 as well, though my intent on that one has always been to have severe limitations on who can rent it - probably require SCCA license or equiv or to those whose driving skills I know first hand. I may pick up a Showroom stock car to rent as well and see how it goes.
Some of the comments here show that participants do not know the real costs they incur by tracking their cars, nor do they want to. Treating it on an incremental basis, with the costs spread over time makes it less terrifying.
I suspect I will make the SRF available for rent. The SR3 as well, though my intent on that one has always been to have severe limitations on who can rent it - probably require SCCA license or equiv or to those whose driving skills I know first hand. I may pick up a Showroom stock car to rent as well and see how it goes.
05-06-2002, 04:52 PM
#29
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sorry, i just skimmed thru your post because youre coming in all wrong
but your message is right and is partly what i'm saying. just to let you know, i ALWAYS get an instructor whether its a new track for me or already had the chance to run thru it before. i still run with the student group for all sorts of reasons but especially that i wanted to pick a veteran's brain. getting the instructor is my OPTION and this newbie had the PRIVILEGE to be ALLOWED to go solo on my first event with QC. who's bragging? but i do feel sorry for those who wanted to go and werent allowed.
Things have changed. high performance drivers education has been redefined.
slower cars in the intermediate level is nothing new but i think our QC is removing them from that run group. if you missed it, Linkov also has something against 'newbies' with nicely setup cars. I did QC everything stock except the chip and i know which cars he could be talking about - slow on turns, cant pass then on passing zone - annoying when you think he shouldnt be sharing the track with you
Things have changed. high performance drivers education has been redefined.
slower cars in the intermediate level is nothing new but i think our QC is removing them from that run group. if you missed it, Linkov also has something against 'newbies' with nicely setup cars. I did QC everything stock except the chip and i know which cars he could be talking about - slow on turns, cant pass then on passing zone - annoying when you think he shouldnt be sharing the track with you