Wow...spent a day in the world of C and D sports racing...
08-21-2003, 06:51 AM
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Wow...spent a day in the world of C and D sports racing...
they don't realize that there is no place in the economy for $65,000 carbon fiber race cars in amateur events.
Looking at a DSR Radical but they are about to become uncompetitive as Stohr and a couple of other makes take the DSR to new levels of cost that IMHO would kill the series alltogether (CSR has been alternating being on probation as it is).
Really like the enduro spec DSR Radical to DO enduros but DSR itself looks pretty weak. Going to test-drive one on the 29th...looking at options other than the Caterham which would offer a high level of driving fun.
Looking at a DSR Radical but they are about to become uncompetitive as Stohr and a couple of other makes take the DSR to new levels of cost that IMHO would kill the series alltogether (CSR has been alternating being on probation as it is).
Really like the enduro spec DSR Radical to DO enduros but DSR itself looks pretty weak. Going to test-drive one on the 29th...looking at options other than the Caterham which would offer a high level of driving fun.
08-21-2003, 07:39 AM
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Re: Wow...spent a day in the world of C and D sports racing...
In what class will you run the Caterham? Will it be semi-street legal? The main turn-off for me concerning the Radical (not that I can afford one) is that it seems to have been designed to be streetable, yet is not here. It's like buying an Elise for track-only. If you're going to run in a really tough class with your Elise or Radical, I'd rather have:
A) A crazy fast Caterham or Westfield that I could occasionally drive on the street but which is of course biased for the track
OR
B) A used Toyota Sports racer or some other single seat - closed-wheel car, 15-20K$ and probably as fast as the Radical.
A) A crazy fast Caterham or Westfield that I could occasionally drive on the street but which is of course biased for the track
OR
B) A used Toyota Sports racer or some other single seat - closed-wheel car, 15-20K$ and probably as fast as the Radical.
08-21-2003, 07:56 AM
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problem(s) are...
with the Caterham that the only organized class is E-production and you have to build the car to a rigid spec because it's "too fast" so they aren't fond of it.
That car theoretically could be streetable...theoretically.
You don't want to get a used sports racer that has no current support and parts...it may appear "cheap" to start out but bend an A-arm or dent the tub and you'll quickly find out how un-cheap it is.
The Radical's problem is weight...DSR has a legal minimum weight of 900lbs for a 1000cc chain-drive motorcycle engine car. Only ONE car right now (the Stohr) comes close to being that light (claims 750lbs + driver). The Radicals tip the scales around 1200lbs (and that's taking off some stuff) but that's because they are robust and designed for endurance racing (most sports racers are no way designed for the rigors of endurance racing).
There are two radicals here...one is the 1300cc (and now 1500cc) CSR car:
<img src="http://www.radicalmotorsport.com/News_Folder/croft/large/Croft_10044.jpg">
And the smaller "single" seat DSR car. Statistically the Radical DSR cars have done well but again, with new cars that are actually close to the weight of the class and with high-levels of sophistication and cost...dunno how long that's going to last. Toyota Sports Racer's haven't been particularly competitive in anything and don't offer the support of a Radical.
<img src="http://www.radicalmotorsport.com/News_Folder/croft/large/Croft_10033.jpg">
That car theoretically could be streetable...theoretically.
You don't want to get a used sports racer that has no current support and parts...it may appear "cheap" to start out but bend an A-arm or dent the tub and you'll quickly find out how un-cheap it is.
The Radical's problem is weight...DSR has a legal minimum weight of 900lbs for a 1000cc chain-drive motorcycle engine car. Only ONE car right now (the Stohr) comes close to being that light (claims 750lbs + driver). The Radicals tip the scales around 1200lbs (and that's taking off some stuff) but that's because they are robust and designed for endurance racing (most sports racers are no way designed for the rigors of endurance racing).
There are two radicals here...one is the 1300cc (and now 1500cc) CSR car:
<img src="http://www.radicalmotorsport.com/News_Folder/croft/large/Croft_10044.jpg">
And the smaller "single" seat DSR car. Statistically the Radical DSR cars have done well but again, with new cars that are actually close to the weight of the class and with high-levels of sophistication and cost...dunno how long that's going to last. Toyota Sports Racer's haven't been particularly competitive in anything and don't offer the support of a Radical.
<img src="http://www.radicalmotorsport.com/News_Folder/croft/large/Croft_10033.jpg">
08-21-2003, 02:44 PM
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CSR & DSR was always been the world of mad scientists...
There IS a place for $65K (+++) carbon fibre rockets in amateur racing. Look at the numbers since Stohr, Radical, the Beasleys...etc. started punching out "sorta production" chassis C & D cars. Both classes are off Nat'l probation. Large fields of C&D cars (sometimes 15+ cars at some Nat'ls) are showing up, since the classes became more accessible to the "non-mad scientist" racers. That said...most are not built for reliability in a world that includes DE/track days/enduros. You can either have competitive (Stohr, Beasley) or strong and durable (Radical, old WSR Toyota Sports Racer). You're not going to get both in one car.
There are still lots of wild creations out there (Mucha's Ralt Mazda monster comes to mind) in CSR that drivers are willing to ante up for, just as there is a market for $100K Atlantics. Hell, $65K barely gets you a competitive annual Nat'l program in Continentals now.
Not really clear on what you're after - sometimes it sounds like you're choosing a "race class", other times you're choosing a "race car". Two VERY different questions. There is no one perfect race car that will meet all your needs...I'm the poster child for that whole issue and, trust me, you'll just drive yourself nuts or just end up with a whole freaking fleet of different race cars.
There are still lots of wild creations out there (Mucha's Ralt Mazda monster comes to mind) in CSR that drivers are willing to ante up for, just as there is a market for $100K Atlantics. Hell, $65K barely gets you a competitive annual Nat'l program in Continentals now.
Not really clear on what you're after - sometimes it sounds like you're choosing a "race class", other times you're choosing a "race car". Two VERY different questions. There is no one perfect race car that will meet all your needs...I'm the poster child for that whole issue and, trust me, you'll just drive yourself nuts or just end up with a whole freaking fleet of different race cars.
08-21-2003, 03:55 PM
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heh...
well I definitely want back into a race car. Tired of production-based cars. And I still want to do enduros (which lets a Stohl out) but would LIKE to be able to race it competitively regionally...I never enter a race that I don't have a chance of winning...to me racing without the chance of winning isnt fun.
And then it would also be fun to do some DE's from time to time so the Radical is the best overall choice there but is iffy with the DSR thing.
And then it would also be fun to do some DE's from time to time so the Radical is the best overall choice there but is iffy with the DSR thing.
