Anybody running a water injection system?
08-13-2001, 07:16 PM
#5
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Why are you convinced that?
Water injection has been around for years, and it's benefits are well known. It was factory installed on some Cosworths, and is widely used in the WRC.
Since a chipped K03 runs on the ragged edge of efficiency, water injection should help a lot to cool the air charge.
The aquamist system is around $450, ad I've heard mention of the Spearco system for about $150, but haven't seen it advertised for less than $200.
Since a chipped K03 runs on the ragged edge of efficiency, water injection should help a lot to cool the air charge.
The aquamist system is around $450, ad I've heard mention of the Spearco system for about $150, but haven't seen it advertised for less than $200.
08-14-2001, 11:41 PM
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are you knocking a lot?
Because cooling the charge doesn't help much because the turbo is already at its limit as to how much air it can throw out. So all you get is a cooler charge, no more air molecules to speak of.
That's okay, it does get you something, less detonation. Are you getting a lot of spark retard? If so, then it might be worth a shot.
A good test is to try a tank or two of 100 octane gas first. If it produces more power for you, then 91 octane + water injection might also. If 100 octane doesn't help, then the effective octane boost of water injection won't help either.
I'm convinced the K-03 has nothing left to give at the levels many people are running them at, so nothing is going to help too much except swapping the turbo.
That's okay, it does get you something, less detonation. Are you getting a lot of spark retard? If so, then it might be worth a shot.
A good test is to try a tank or two of 100 octane gas first. If it produces more power for you, then 91 octane + water injection might also. If 100 octane doesn't help, then the effective octane boost of water injection won't help either.
I'm convinced the K-03 has nothing left to give at the levels many people are running them at, so nothing is going to help too much except swapping the turbo.
08-15-2001, 05:59 AM
#7
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It's not knocking, but you can tell it's retarding timing...
to prevent knocking. Every now and then it gets a little surge, and that's with 94 octane. It gets worse with 92 octane.
Cooling the charge helps a LOT with turbo motors. Since the K03 is running at the limit, the efficiency is way down from stock, which means more heated air than stock, which is hotter air than the stock IC was meant to handle.
Which means I can spend $800 + for a FMIC, or $200 for water injection. The downside to a FMIC is pressure drop, heat soak, and possibly a little lag. Water injection has none of these side effects, as long as the water tank is filled.
It's proven that water also helps clean the combustion chambers, consider it a bonus to added power
Cooling the charge helps a LOT with turbo motors. Since the K03 is running at the limit, the efficiency is way down from stock, which means more heated air than stock, which is hotter air than the stock IC was meant to handle.
Which means I can spend $800 + for a FMIC, or $200 for water injection. The downside to a FMIC is pressure drop, heat soak, and possibly a little lag. Water injection has none of these side effects, as long as the water tank is filled.
It's proven that water also helps clean the combustion chambers, consider it a bonus to added power
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08-16-2001, 01:37 AM
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I have to disagree with your theory here.
I have dyno charts that clearly show a drop across the rev range of approx 10kw from heat soak of the intercooler on the second and third runs with a Wett chip, which incidently runs a peak of 18psi tappering off to 15psi with my 3" system. The stock chip had a peak boost of 10psi tappering off to 6psi.
ie 1st run 100kw 2nd 95kw 3rd 90kw (at wheels)additional runs would have lost perhaps another 5kw. The stock chip showed 72kw at the wheels again with the 3" system. With the stock chip heat soak wasnt an issue at all. All 4 runs with the stock chip were within a couple of kw of each other.
Admitedly the effect of heat soak with the wett chip wouldnt be quite so great with the car moving, but keep in mind there was also a mighty lot of air from the cooling fan directed at the intercooler.
I will scan the dyno chart in shortly and post it up here.
I have no doubt that cooling the charge will net a small performance gain, however consistency of the power is the biggest impact of a larger/cooler intercooler. With that in mind you could concievably run more boost to gain more power with the K03 if you could find someone to tune it for your setup. All the KOx upgrades are based on the standard intercooler, a larger/cooler system would enable you to push maybe 2-3PSI more providing fueling keeps up.
My mixtures with the wett were quite good up till 5000rpm where it starts to lean out but there is still a little more room for power with the stock injectors providing you keep the intake charge cool and use 98 or better fuel. (these figures were on 98.4)
ie 1st run 100kw 2nd 95kw 3rd 90kw (at wheels)additional runs would have lost perhaps another 5kw. The stock chip showed 72kw at the wheels again with the 3" system. With the stock chip heat soak wasnt an issue at all. All 4 runs with the stock chip were within a couple of kw of each other.
Admitedly the effect of heat soak with the wett chip wouldnt be quite so great with the car moving, but keep in mind there was also a mighty lot of air from the cooling fan directed at the intercooler.
I will scan the dyno chart in shortly and post it up here.
I have no doubt that cooling the charge will net a small performance gain, however consistency of the power is the biggest impact of a larger/cooler intercooler. With that in mind you could concievably run more boost to gain more power with the K03 if you could find someone to tune it for your setup. All the KOx upgrades are based on the standard intercooler, a larger/cooler system would enable you to push maybe 2-3PSI more providing fueling keeps up.
My mixtures with the wett were quite good up till 5000rpm where it starts to lean out but there is still a little more room for power with the stock injectors providing you keep the intake charge cool and use 98 or better fuel. (these figures were on 98.4)
08-16-2001, 02:02 AM
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Dyno chart power in KW and tractive effort
<center><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/3858/ahf97fdyno1.jpg"></center><p>Chart is uncorrected as plotted from the runs.
99 A4TQM (132kw standard - 180hp)
HP = KW x 1.3636
4th gear power runs
KO3 with 3" from turbo
Stock (8psi) actually peaks 10psi drops to 6psi with the free flowing exhaust
Wett 1bar (14.7psi) actually peaks at 18psi drops to 15psi with the free flowing exhaust.
18" x 8" rims with 245/35 Yoko AVS sport rubber
stock chip 3" exhaust 72kw/98HP @wheels
Wett chip 3" exhaust 100kw/136HP @ wheels
increase of 28kw/38HP @ wheels
stock 132KW + 28KW = 160KW/218HP @ flywheel
Wett claim 154kw with no other mods.
Assuming i got 5-10KW increase up front with the stock chip on the dyno because of the 3" system and 2 PSI extra (this is conservative for a 2psi increase) I have somewhere between 165kw/224HP and 175kw/238HP... Well within reach of the KO3.
99 A4TQM (132kw standard - 180hp)
HP = KW x 1.3636
4th gear power runs
KO3 with 3" from turbo
Stock (8psi) actually peaks 10psi drops to 6psi with the free flowing exhaust
Wett 1bar (14.7psi) actually peaks at 18psi drops to 15psi with the free flowing exhaust.
18" x 8" rims with 245/35 Yoko AVS sport rubber
stock chip 3" exhaust 72kw/98HP @wheels
Wett chip 3" exhaust 100kw/136HP @ wheels
increase of 28kw/38HP @ wheels
stock 132KW + 28KW = 160KW/218HP @ flywheel
Wett claim 154kw with no other mods.
Assuming i got 5-10KW increase up front with the stock chip on the dyno because of the 3" system and 2 PSI extra (this is conservative for a 2psi increase) I have somewhere between 165kw/224HP and 175kw/238HP... Well within reach of the KO3.
