Camber write up (long)
06-19-2001, 09:47 AM
#1
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
Camber write up (long)
"Hello,....uuhmmm ya, I sucked at AutoX...uuummm yeah, I need more front camber....really!! cool. Thanks"
Well, not exactly that scenario, after many events and cording my tires on the outside, I always opted for more negative front camber, which I can easily fine tune myself. Thanks to Vortrag, this was made possible. Here's how the install went on the Vortrag adjustable upper links.
Thanks to Corey for passing these on to me from Vortrag. Sharon already has a set using aluminum ball housings. but when ask if I was interested in the upgraded steel ones, but of course! They ordered 2 sets, 1 to replace their aluminum ones. These steel ones look pretty strong.
<img SRC="http://home.earthlink.net/~ego69/_images/ck_camberkit.jpg">
The hardest part was trying to determine how to get started. Looks like there are 2 sets, one shorter than the other. Each of them have a reverse threaded red bolt along with the reverse threaded ball housing. Some assembly is required. But the task gets trivial as things went together.
One quick chat with Corey made the install more clear. BTW, the total weighed about 6 lbs. Stock ones are almost 2 lbs lighter.
((Step one)) Removing the old links. Maybe I can do this without taking off the wheel. Let's see.
<img SRC="http://home.earthlink.net/~ego69/_images/ck_disassemble1.jpg">
Maybe not. Remove the wheel, remove the strut housing, then unbolt the upper links with 16mm wrench and socket.
<img SRC="http://home.earthlink.net/~ego69/_images/ck_disassemble2.jpg">
Tip: A good idea to measure the stock link placement first in case things don't work out. These stock settings ensure the rubber bushing is unbound in the normal position to extend life. It may be a good idea to do one side at a time for comparison purposes later.
<img SRC="http://home.earthlink.net/~ego69/_images/ck_disassemble3.jpg">
((Step two)) Measure the original links and match with the adjustable. Very crucial, but how do you do this? Some creativity required. Failure to match lengths will severely affect caster since camber and toe are easily adjustable later. There are other ways which I tried later, but did not take pictures.
<img SRC="http://home.earthlink.net/~ego69/_images/ck_measure1.jpg">
<img SRC="http://home.earthlink.net/~ego69/_images/ck_measure2.jpg">
<img SRC="http://home.earthlink.net/~ego69/_images/ck_measure3.jpg">
((Step three)) Reassemble with new links in place. Reinstall strut assembly in place. Measure the upper arm mounting point on both ends and compare with
other side. See if matching lengths was done properly. If ok, do the same on the other side.
<img SRC="http://home.earthlink.net/~ego69/_images/ck_reassemble1.jpg">
<img SRC="http://home.earthlink.net/~ego69/_images/ck_reassemble2.jpg">
((Step four)) After driving the car around to settle the suspension, measure caster, camber and toe in that order. I haven't made a caster gauge, so I skipped that part. Will come back to it later, but as the lengths appear to be properly matched, it looks good.
<img SRC="http://home.earthlink.net/~ego69/_images/ck_before_adj1.jpg">
<img SRC="http://home.earthlink.net/~ego69/_images/ck_before_adj2.jpg">
Tips for homebrew alignment tools:
Camber. The simplest tool to make with some trigonometry involved. Basically two rulers and a level indicator. One ruler parallel to the rim, the other perpendicular with respect to earth, measure the distance between the two tips. Calculate angle. Remember SOH CAH TOA?
Caster can be done with a camber gauge. The idea is to get the wheel 90 degrees turned and measure the angle the wheel is leaning at. Unless you drive a forklift, this is certainly not possible on a car. Instead, rotate the wheel one way 45 degrees, then the other way 45 degrees and in each time, measure the camber. Add the absolute value and that is your caster. If the measurement of the camber with turning the wheel is less than turning the wheel out, you have negative caster. And vice versa. So, the only thing I need to make is one that shows me 45 degree angles. Easy to do with my plastic plumbing too. Note, smaller angles can be used, but the results will need further trigonometry before they can be added together.
Toe is important. Without it, forget about handling, the car will steer itself into a corner. Toe has to be set with a perfectly square box (or 2 parallel lines) with respect to the car (body) and all four wheels. Doing only one end is acceptable if checking the fronts only, without any importance on how the steering wheel is pointing. Doing two rear wheels only will most likely result in crabbing or the car moving slightly sideways.
String is a nifty tool to get straight lines. When it is under tension, it will be straight. Next revision will be laser
Two parallel strings can be setup with 2 pairs of jack stands, but resetting them up takes too long. Wandering around my backyard (in need of a sprinkler system) and the hardware store, I came up with one using sprinkler plumbing. Light, cheap and I can use them later for my backyard later 
. Fairly accurate, as the parallel lines are only +/- 1mm off each 17 feet end.
<img SRC="http://home.earthlink.net/~ego69/_images/ck_adjust3.jpg">
Then, find a center point on the front and rear of the vehicle and match that to the center point of the front and rear of my toe box. Done. If I accidentally hit the box, which I did many times, it was easy to center it again. The box was also verified with the body and wheel center measurements. Close enough, it was square with the car.
((Step something)) After I measured camber and toe, it was off to adjust the links. Jack the car up so that both wheels come up at the same time and the front rises up vertically, by placing the jack center and the lifting arm parallel to the car. Otherwise, it will move too much with respect to the box. Keep car in gear but disengage handbrake. Use slip plates if you have some. If not, use my trademark 30 gallon trash bags, folded in a z pattern. This I came across by accident as I slipped on one he he.
<img SRC="http://home.earthlink.net/~ego69/_images/ck_adjust1.jpg">
<img SRC="http://home.earthlink.net/~ego69/_images/ck_adjust2.jpg">
Tip: See my flat rule horsie? That will guarantee me a fast one handed level measurement everytime. Next revision will have a parallel ruler to the string, or maybe laser beams
Adjust all links with equal number of turns for now. Count turns, lower car, re-measure camber and toe. This will give you an idea of how much does what. When camber is set, adjust Toe. Loosen locking nut and turn smaller nut with 18mm wrench. Count turns also. Lower car and check. Repeat as necessary.
When done, take down car, drive, and re-measure. If all looks good, pat back.
<img SRC="http://home.earthlink.net/~ego69/_images/ck_adjust4.jpg">
<img SRC="http://home.earthlink.net/~ego69/_images/ck_adjust5.jpg">
That's -3 degrees in case you didn't notice.
So before and after settings are as follows: Note before settings last performed by a custom alignment shop.
....................Before:........After
Ride Height:
Front Left........25 1/4"..........25 1/4"
Front Right.......25 1/8"..........25 1/8"
Rear Left.........25 1/8"..........25 3/8"
Rear Right........25 1/4"..........25 1/2"
(note: raised the rears by 6 mm for other reasons)
....................Before:........After
Camber:
Front Left............-1.5...........-3"
Front Right..........-1.25.........-3"
Rear Left............-1.5..........-1.5
Rear Right...........-1.75*........-1.5*
Note: *right rear is set at minimum. Rear subframe movement is required to get less. This will be my next step. Raising the ride height and stiffening the rear rebound (7/10s) made rear tract more neutral
......................Before:........After
Toe:
Front Left............-1/8"*.........+1/16"*
Front Right............0"*............+1/16"*
Rear Left............-1/16............+1/16"
Rear Right...........-3/16...........+1/16"
Note: *Front Toe settings taken with steering wheel straight.
Tip: rear toe out causes instability on straights, but who needs that for AutoX
Car barely wanders on the freeway and Steering wheels is straight. No pull, so, my caster is most likely still balanced left - right.
On the AutoX, initial turn in is less responsive, but when the car is turning, more acceleration is possible. Also with the rear toe out, car has a tendency to oversteer with throttle. Now you see why I set it that way right By August, I will have new tires and will see how the setup really performs.
Oh now, I need less camber on the rear. Ring ring
Well, not exactly that scenario, after many events and cording my tires on the outside, I always opted for more negative front camber, which I can easily fine tune myself. Thanks to Vortrag, this was made possible. Here's how the install went on the Vortrag adjustable upper links.
Thanks to Corey for passing these on to me from Vortrag. Sharon already has a set using aluminum ball housings. but when ask if I was interested in the upgraded steel ones, but of course! They ordered 2 sets, 1 to replace their aluminum ones. These steel ones look pretty strong.
<img SRC="http://home.earthlink.net/~ego69/_images/ck_camberkit.jpg">
The hardest part was trying to determine how to get started. Looks like there are 2 sets, one shorter than the other. Each of them have a reverse threaded red bolt along with the reverse threaded ball housing. Some assembly is required. But the task gets trivial as things went together.
One quick chat with Corey made the install more clear. BTW, the total weighed about 6 lbs. Stock ones are almost 2 lbs lighter.
((Step one)) Removing the old links. Maybe I can do this without taking off the wheel. Let's see.
<img SRC="http://home.earthlink.net/~ego69/_images/ck_disassemble1.jpg">
Maybe not. Remove the wheel, remove the strut housing, then unbolt the upper links with 16mm wrench and socket.
<img SRC="http://home.earthlink.net/~ego69/_images/ck_disassemble2.jpg">
Tip: A good idea to measure the stock link placement first in case things don't work out. These stock settings ensure the rubber bushing is unbound in the normal position to extend life. It may be a good idea to do one side at a time for comparison purposes later.
<img SRC="http://home.earthlink.net/~ego69/_images/ck_disassemble3.jpg">
((Step two)) Measure the original links and match with the adjustable. Very crucial, but how do you do this? Some creativity required. Failure to match lengths will severely affect caster since camber and toe are easily adjustable later. There are other ways which I tried later, but did not take pictures.
<img SRC="http://home.earthlink.net/~ego69/_images/ck_measure1.jpg">
<img SRC="http://home.earthlink.net/~ego69/_images/ck_measure2.jpg">
<img SRC="http://home.earthlink.net/~ego69/_images/ck_measure3.jpg">
((Step three)) Reassemble with new links in place. Reinstall strut assembly in place. Measure the upper arm mounting point on both ends and compare with
other side. See if matching lengths was done properly. If ok, do the same on the other side.
<img SRC="http://home.earthlink.net/~ego69/_images/ck_reassemble1.jpg">
<img SRC="http://home.earthlink.net/~ego69/_images/ck_reassemble2.jpg">
((Step four)) After driving the car around to settle the suspension, measure caster, camber and toe in that order. I haven't made a caster gauge, so I skipped that part. Will come back to it later, but as the lengths appear to be properly matched, it looks good.
<img SRC="http://home.earthlink.net/~ego69/_images/ck_before_adj1.jpg">
<img SRC="http://home.earthlink.net/~ego69/_images/ck_before_adj2.jpg">
Tips for homebrew alignment tools:
Camber. The simplest tool to make with some trigonometry involved. Basically two rulers and a level indicator. One ruler parallel to the rim, the other perpendicular with respect to earth, measure the distance between the two tips. Calculate angle. Remember SOH CAH TOA?
Caster can be done with a camber gauge. The idea is to get the wheel 90 degrees turned and measure the angle the wheel is leaning at. Unless you drive a forklift, this is certainly not possible on a car. Instead, rotate the wheel one way 45 degrees, then the other way 45 degrees and in each time, measure the camber. Add the absolute value and that is your caster. If the measurement of the camber with turning the wheel is less than turning the wheel out, you have negative caster. And vice versa. So, the only thing I need to make is one that shows me 45 degree angles. Easy to do with my plastic plumbing too. Note, smaller angles can be used, but the results will need further trigonometry before they can be added together.
Toe is important. Without it, forget about handling, the car will steer itself into a corner. Toe has to be set with a perfectly square box (or 2 parallel lines) with respect to the car (body) and all four wheels. Doing only one end is acceptable if checking the fronts only, without any importance on how the steering wheel is pointing. Doing two rear wheels only will most likely result in crabbing or the car moving slightly sideways.
String is a nifty tool to get straight lines. When it is under tension, it will be straight. Next revision will be laser
Two parallel strings can be setup with 2 pairs of jack stands, but resetting them up takes too long. Wandering around my backyard (in need of a sprinkler system) and the hardware store, I came up with one using sprinkler plumbing. Light, cheap and I can use them later for my backyard later . Fairly accurate, as the parallel lines are only +/- 1mm off each 17 feet end.<img SRC="http://home.earthlink.net/~ego69/_images/ck_adjust3.jpg">
Then, find a center point on the front and rear of the vehicle and match that to the center point of the front and rear of my toe box. Done. If I accidentally hit the box, which I did many times, it was easy to center it again. The box was also verified with the body and wheel center measurements. Close enough, it was square with the car.
((Step something)) After I measured camber and toe, it was off to adjust the links. Jack the car up so that both wheels come up at the same time and the front rises up vertically, by placing the jack center and the lifting arm parallel to the car. Otherwise, it will move too much with respect to the box. Keep car in gear but disengage handbrake. Use slip plates if you have some. If not, use my trademark 30 gallon trash bags, folded in a z pattern. This I came across by accident as I slipped on one he he.
<img SRC="http://home.earthlink.net/~ego69/_images/ck_adjust1.jpg">
<img SRC="http://home.earthlink.net/~ego69/_images/ck_adjust2.jpg">
Tip: See my flat rule horsie? That will guarantee me a fast one handed level measurement everytime. Next revision will have a parallel ruler to the string, or maybe laser beams
Adjust all links with equal number of turns for now. Count turns, lower car, re-measure camber and toe. This will give you an idea of how much does what. When camber is set, adjust Toe. Loosen locking nut and turn smaller nut with 18mm wrench. Count turns also. Lower car and check. Repeat as necessary.
When done, take down car, drive, and re-measure. If all looks good, pat back.
<img SRC="http://home.earthlink.net/~ego69/_images/ck_adjust4.jpg">
<img SRC="http://home.earthlink.net/~ego69/_images/ck_adjust5.jpg">
That's -3 degrees in case you didn't notice.
So before and after settings are as follows: Note before settings last performed by a custom alignment shop.
....................Before:........After
Ride Height:
Front Left........25 1/4"..........25 1/4"
Front Right.......25 1/8"..........25 1/8"
Rear Left.........25 1/8"..........25 3/8"
Rear Right........25 1/4"..........25 1/2"
(note: raised the rears by 6 mm for other reasons)
....................Before:........After
Camber:
Front Left............-1.5...........-3"
Front Right..........-1.25.........-3"
Rear Left............-1.5..........-1.5
Rear Right...........-1.75*........-1.5*
Note: *right rear is set at minimum. Rear subframe movement is required to get less. This will be my next step. Raising the ride height and stiffening the rear rebound (7/10s) made rear tract more neutral
......................Before:........After
Toe:
Front Left............-1/8"*.........+1/16"*
Front Right............0"*............+1/16"*
Rear Left............-1/16............+1/16"
Rear Right...........-3/16...........+1/16"
Note: *Front Toe settings taken with steering wheel straight.
Tip: rear toe out causes instability on straights, but who needs that for AutoX
Car barely wanders on the freeway and Steering wheels is straight. No pull, so, my caster is most likely still balanced left - right.
On the AutoX, initial turn in is less responsive, but when the car is turning, more acceleration is possible. Also with the rear toe out, car has a tendency to oversteer with throttle. Now you see why I set it that way right
By August, I will have new tires and will see how the setup really performs. Oh now, I need less camber on the rear. Ring ring
06-19-2001, 10:02 AM
#2
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Join Date: Mar 2000
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Great Write Up!
Your string up looks like our project from a couple weekends back.
You'll now love the flexibility the upper links give you, though you'll now spend some exponential amount of time tinkering with those adjustments :-)
You'll now love the flexibility the upper links give you, though you'll now spend some exponential amount of time tinkering with those adjustments :-)
