Hot Chips! - Wetterauer or GIAC- My `REAL' Story & Review - X Post to B5 Forum
01-09-2003, 02:56 AM
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Hot Chips! - Wetterauer or GIAC- My `REAL' Story & Review - X Post to B5 Forum
I am going to begin this review by stating the obvious -
1. I am in no way WHATSOEVER affiliated with GIAC or Wetterauer.
2. I have no financial incentive / gain / power etc.. With either of these Tuners
3. I am an Audi enthusiast who looks for 1. Exceptionally High Quality Products which deliver on their promises, 2. Value for Money and 3. Reliability (not necessarily in that order)
4. I have NO Bias to either Wetterauer or GIAC as "Companies".
With that necessary evil out of the way here goes.
I purchased my first Audi A4 1.8 Turbo Quattro Manual Sport in February 2002 - It was stock when I purchased it (except for a K&N Filter). This chip comparison was made with the car engine stock (except for the K&N drop in filter). My aftermarket suspension, wheels and other modifications have all been added since, and over the last 12 months.
The first modification was a Wetterauer 1 Bar Chip. I have lived with the Wett chip for nearly a year now and very recently decided to try a GIAC to compare. Why? Simply to see which was better. These are my findings. They are REAL world findings based on my impressions, driving experience and `butt' dyno. I have not done a dyno comparison between the chips and do not intend to (I have better things to spend a couple of hundred dollars on). Nevertheless my findings are conclusive and significant - to the extent that a dyno comparison was a totally unnecessary expense for me.
Since I have lived with the Wett Chip the longest I will begin by explaining my impressions of it first.
The Wett chip is a good product - It does everything it claims it will do. It increases both HP and Torque without any negative side effects to speak of. What is interesting is the way it does it. I will try and explain. With the Wett chip installed in the car the turbo seems to take a long time to spool up - I would say it doesn't really get up and boogie before about 3300 rpm. This is quite high for a stock KO3 turbo in my opinion. However, when spooled up there is good power right up to about 5500 rpm where the KO3 runs out of huff. Where the Wett chip seems to perform best is 2nd and 3rd gears when the revs are kept up around the 3K + mark. 4th seems to lack the outright punch of 2nd and 3rd. Additionally, I always felt 1st gear was a little wanting. Almost as if the car was not making full boost in 1st gear. Also, the Wett chip gives the cars throttle a very `digital' response. That is, it is necessary to use WOT in order to get good power and acceleration - kind of like playing a video game. I always thought this was kind of ok - as it meant I could put around town like I was driving Miss Daisy knowing I had good power under WOT should I need it.
GIAC: The Giac chip is also a good product and it also does everything it claims it will do, increasing both HP and Torque without any negative side effects. It does however; accomplish this in a very different way to Wetterauer. Right off the bat the GIAC chip is ready to rock. There is no turbo lag (to speak of) whatsoever with a stock KO3 and GIAC chip. Boost and power are all there in abundance. The pulling power of the car with this chip is exceptional. I would say it exceeds its makers claims in this regard. Torque is phenomenal with this Chip and it is all there - In fact the car seems to want to use it - surging forward in traffic even when the accelerator is only lightly feathered. This is a very very impressive chip.
And the Winner is?: GIAC - And I'll tell you why.
Ok - I will try and sum up the differences: With the GIAC chip in the car the turbo spools up much, much faster than with the Wett chip. Power is available virtually right off the cuff, with increased torque making for a quicker getaway off the line. Additionally, the GIAC makes lots more power in 1st and 2nd gears than the Wett chip ever did - particularly 1st gear. I would go so far as to say that the Wett does NOT make full boost in 1st gear. The GIAC literally spanks the Wett chip in the Torque and HP arena leaving no doubt in my mind which chip offers more bang for your buck. Right through the gears and no matter where I am in the Rev range the GIAC's response is exceptional. This chip my fellow Audiphiles is a real crowd pleaser :-)
Other Impressions: With the GIAC in the car I would say the car runs better and smoother than with the Wett. With the Wett chip installed the car always seemed to be on the verge of pinging - although I was never able to actually get the car to ping - not even on very hot days under heavy load and high rpms. However, with the GIAC installed there is no feeling of `possible' pinging at all. The installation of the GIAC really confirmed a suspicion in my own mind that the Wett chip runs lean - perhaps dangerously so in some cases. As a result, I would also surmise that Wett accomplish their power gains by running leaner than the GIAC chip (I believe significantly so). This is theory only - I cannot back it up with hard empirical evidence.
Oil Temperature: I run Mobil 1 Fully Synthetic SW-50 in my A4. With the Wett chip my standard Oil temp was 105-110 up to 120+ when being driven hard. With the GIAC my standard oil temp is 95-100 - moving to 110 under hard driving. Interesting....And again further evidence that the Wett runs lean.
Interestingly, the GIAC and Wetteraurer Chip both produce a quite different exhaust note. Having lived with the Wett Chip the longest I would describe its note as somewhat raspy with a high octive sound more akin to a high revving Honda than a German Audi.
The GIAC has a deeper burble, more akin to a larger-than-stock exhaust. I can only account for the difference as attributable to the different Air Fuel Ratios of the different chips. Which Sounds Better? They both sound good. I prefer the sound of the GIAC however, it sounds more like the car `means business'. I never did like a raspy exhaust note.
For day-to-day driving it really is a no-brainer - The GIAC offers more low down torque and more useable power making for a better performing chip. I want to be crystal clear on this point: The GIAC makes not a little more - but a LOT more power than the Wett and it does so right throughout the rev range.
Perhaps to sum up and to be fair to Wetterauer. Both chips are excellent. Both do everything they claim (they just do it differently). Most people would be totally happy with the Wett (as long as they never stepped foot in a GIAC equipped car).
Value for Money: Well, the Wetterauer chip cost nearly $2000 Australian installed. The GIAC cost $1500 Australian installed. The GIAC offers a significantly (I say again Significantly) better performance improvement than the Wett chip - enough of a benefit that I felt it warranted spending another $1500 on a chip after already dropping $2K on the Wett. That should really tell you something about how good the GIAC is. It's an exceptional performance upgrade at an exceptionally good price. You could spend a lot more on a lot of other products for a lot less gain.
All things being equal - and they certainly were for me during my comparisons - The GIAC is the clear winner in the performance stakes, stable idle, oil temps, exhaust note, and cost. If you are in the market for a chip for your Audi - you owe it to yourself to try a GIAC. Take it from someone who has had both, and didn't want to spend any more money on another chip.
"GIAC is the Winner" - Enough said.
P.S. My Wetterauer 1 Bar chip is now for sale. :-)
1. I am in no way WHATSOEVER affiliated with GIAC or Wetterauer.
2. I have no financial incentive / gain / power etc.. With either of these Tuners
3. I am an Audi enthusiast who looks for 1. Exceptionally High Quality Products which deliver on their promises, 2. Value for Money and 3. Reliability (not necessarily in that order)
4. I have NO Bias to either Wetterauer or GIAC as "Companies".
With that necessary evil out of the way here goes.
I purchased my first Audi A4 1.8 Turbo Quattro Manual Sport in February 2002 - It was stock when I purchased it (except for a K&N Filter). This chip comparison was made with the car engine stock (except for the K&N drop in filter). My aftermarket suspension, wheels and other modifications have all been added since, and over the last 12 months.
The first modification was a Wetterauer 1 Bar Chip. I have lived with the Wett chip for nearly a year now and very recently decided to try a GIAC to compare. Why? Simply to see which was better. These are my findings. They are REAL world findings based on my impressions, driving experience and `butt' dyno. I have not done a dyno comparison between the chips and do not intend to (I have better things to spend a couple of hundred dollars on). Nevertheless my findings are conclusive and significant - to the extent that a dyno comparison was a totally unnecessary expense for me.
Since I have lived with the Wett Chip the longest I will begin by explaining my impressions of it first.
The Wett chip is a good product - It does everything it claims it will do. It increases both HP and Torque without any negative side effects to speak of. What is interesting is the way it does it. I will try and explain. With the Wett chip installed in the car the turbo seems to take a long time to spool up - I would say it doesn't really get up and boogie before about 3300 rpm. This is quite high for a stock KO3 turbo in my opinion. However, when spooled up there is good power right up to about 5500 rpm where the KO3 runs out of huff. Where the Wett chip seems to perform best is 2nd and 3rd gears when the revs are kept up around the 3K + mark. 4th seems to lack the outright punch of 2nd and 3rd. Additionally, I always felt 1st gear was a little wanting. Almost as if the car was not making full boost in 1st gear. Also, the Wett chip gives the cars throttle a very `digital' response. That is, it is necessary to use WOT in order to get good power and acceleration - kind of like playing a video game. I always thought this was kind of ok - as it meant I could put around town like I was driving Miss Daisy knowing I had good power under WOT should I need it.
GIAC: The Giac chip is also a good product and it also does everything it claims it will do, increasing both HP and Torque without any negative side effects. It does however; accomplish this in a very different way to Wetterauer. Right off the bat the GIAC chip is ready to rock. There is no turbo lag (to speak of) whatsoever with a stock KO3 and GIAC chip. Boost and power are all there in abundance. The pulling power of the car with this chip is exceptional. I would say it exceeds its makers claims in this regard. Torque is phenomenal with this Chip and it is all there - In fact the car seems to want to use it - surging forward in traffic even when the accelerator is only lightly feathered. This is a very very impressive chip.
And the Winner is?: GIAC - And I'll tell you why.
Ok - I will try and sum up the differences: With the GIAC chip in the car the turbo spools up much, much faster than with the Wett chip. Power is available virtually right off the cuff, with increased torque making for a quicker getaway off the line. Additionally, the GIAC makes lots more power in 1st and 2nd gears than the Wett chip ever did - particularly 1st gear. I would go so far as to say that the Wett does NOT make full boost in 1st gear. The GIAC literally spanks the Wett chip in the Torque and HP arena leaving no doubt in my mind which chip offers more bang for your buck. Right through the gears and no matter where I am in the Rev range the GIAC's response is exceptional. This chip my fellow Audiphiles is a real crowd pleaser :-)
Other Impressions: With the GIAC in the car I would say the car runs better and smoother than with the Wett. With the Wett chip installed the car always seemed to be on the verge of pinging - although I was never able to actually get the car to ping - not even on very hot days under heavy load and high rpms. However, with the GIAC installed there is no feeling of `possible' pinging at all. The installation of the GIAC really confirmed a suspicion in my own mind that the Wett chip runs lean - perhaps dangerously so in some cases. As a result, I would also surmise that Wett accomplish their power gains by running leaner than the GIAC chip (I believe significantly so). This is theory only - I cannot back it up with hard empirical evidence.
Oil Temperature: I run Mobil 1 Fully Synthetic SW-50 in my A4. With the Wett chip my standard Oil temp was 105-110 up to 120+ when being driven hard. With the GIAC my standard oil temp is 95-100 - moving to 110 under hard driving. Interesting....And again further evidence that the Wett runs lean.
Interestingly, the GIAC and Wetteraurer Chip both produce a quite different exhaust note. Having lived with the Wett Chip the longest I would describe its note as somewhat raspy with a high octive sound more akin to a high revving Honda than a German Audi.
The GIAC has a deeper burble, more akin to a larger-than-stock exhaust. I can only account for the difference as attributable to the different Air Fuel Ratios of the different chips. Which Sounds Better? They both sound good. I prefer the sound of the GIAC however, it sounds more like the car `means business'. I never did like a raspy exhaust note.
For day-to-day driving it really is a no-brainer - The GIAC offers more low down torque and more useable power making for a better performing chip. I want to be crystal clear on this point: The GIAC makes not a little more - but a LOT more power than the Wett and it does so right throughout the rev range.
Perhaps to sum up and to be fair to Wetterauer. Both chips are excellent. Both do everything they claim (they just do it differently). Most people would be totally happy with the Wett (as long as they never stepped foot in a GIAC equipped car).
Value for Money: Well, the Wetterauer chip cost nearly $2000 Australian installed. The GIAC cost $1500 Australian installed. The GIAC offers a significantly (I say again Significantly) better performance improvement than the Wett chip - enough of a benefit that I felt it warranted spending another $1500 on a chip after already dropping $2K on the Wett. That should really tell you something about how good the GIAC is. It's an exceptional performance upgrade at an exceptionally good price. You could spend a lot more on a lot of other products for a lot less gain.
All things being equal - and they certainly were for me during my comparisons - The GIAC is the clear winner in the performance stakes, stable idle, oil temps, exhaust note, and cost. If you are in the market for a chip for your Audi - you owe it to yourself to try a GIAC. Take it from someone who has had both, and didn't want to spend any more money on another chip.
"GIAC is the Winner" - Enough said.
P.S. My Wetterauer 1 Bar chip is now for sale. :-)
01-09-2003, 08:17 AM
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Holy assumptions batman.
A single vagcom run would validate or refute the ...incipient ping... whatever that is. And, provide *actual* temperatures.
The chips in no way vary the spoolup rpm of the turbo.
The chips in no way vary the spoolup rpm of the turbo.
01-09-2003, 11:33 AM
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Yes a chip can very the spool up time of the turbo
It is done by controlling the N75 to set boost levels by the rpms. All the chip has to do to change the way the boost comes on is to tell the N75 valve to open the wastegate at a set boost level and then to slowly close it till it hits its max boost level. This is what they call softening the boost to let the boost level rise up slower. The chip tuner can also set boost levels for each gear.
01-10-2003, 07:26 AM
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Heh, you guys are funny.
So you are telling me that that Wett, or anybody for that matter, is opening the wastegate long before max boost in the specified gear (other than first)? Or, as stated above that they open the wastegate, then trim it closed!!!!) Lol. I would love to see ANY evidence of that.
That isn't how it works, because you would never pull any boost. The wastegate has to be closed to force the air through the compressor, then the wastegate is cracked open, then opened completely. Not vice-versa.
The energy/pressure it takes to spool-up the compressor up (at the nominal operating temperature) with the wastegate closed is the same. That is why KKK(now a subdivision) and Audi brag about the low rpm that the kkk03 begins spooling-up.
*Everybody* reduces max boost in first gear for several reasons, including engine torque, traction, drivability, etc.
If you look at the dyno plots for anybody's kkk03 chip at a given boost, they all use the same basic techniques to get there, rapid timing rise and later *opening* of the wastegate compared to stock. The ratio of the two variables is the only substantive difference between chips.
That isn't how it works, because you would never pull any boost. The wastegate has to be closed to force the air through the compressor, then the wastegate is cracked open, then opened completely. Not vice-versa.
The energy/pressure it takes to spool-up the compressor up (at the nominal operating temperature) with the wastegate closed is the same. That is why KKK(now a subdivision) and Audi brag about the low rpm that the kkk03 begins spooling-up.
*Everybody* reduces max boost in first gear for several reasons, including engine torque, traction, drivability, etc.
If you look at the dyno plots for anybody's kkk03 chip at a given boost, they all use the same basic techniques to get there, rapid timing rise and later *opening* of the wastegate compared to stock. The ratio of the two variables is the only substantive difference between chips.
01-10-2003, 08:02 AM
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I said
a tuner can control how the boost comes up by opening the wastegate sooner to to bring boost up slower, not that they open it full then close it. If you open it at a lower boost pressure then slightly open it more to control how the boost comes on that would make the boost hit its full boost limit later in the rpms. It is just like using a low/high boost controller but it lets the boost climb between the 2 settings slowly not all at once.
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01-11-2003, 04:45 PM
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Holy mackeral are you wrong...another award winner
<center><img src="http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/104ce0da/bc/My+Photos/audi+assclown.jpg?BCLeMI.AlDbjDsv2"></center><p>Speak not of which you know nothing.
01-13-2003, 08:35 AM
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I have seen Garrett at GIAC adjusting boost request programming for a chip
boost levels can be set by RPM. This means a chip can tell the wastegate at what % to be open/closed. If the chip opens the wastegate earlier in the rpms and then closes as the rpms go up, the boost will come on slower to reach its max setting. The lowest level the wastegate can be set at is 5psi, the minute the turbo makes 5psi the wastegate is wideopen to hold that. If you dont believe me go out to your car and take 2 of the lines off your N75 valve and connect the one from the turbo housing directly to the wastegate actuator.