How do you extract more power from a TDi engine?
06-12-2001, 08:03 PM
#1
New Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How do you extract more power from a TDi engine?
Friend of mine owns a VW with a turbodiesel engine. He says it's slow as hell and I believe him, how does one extract more power from that kind of engine? Can you chip it, air filter, exhaust system?? What would work on a diesel??
06-13-2001, 03:49 AM
#6
AudiWorld Member
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fred's TDi Page
This is one very nice engine. Nice enough so that I was giving serious consideration to buying a TDi-equipped Jetta instead of my S4...
http://www.tdiclub.com/
http://members.aol.com/StealthTDI/<ul><li><a href="http://www.tdiclub.com/">http://www.tdiclub.com/</a</li></ul>
http://www.tdiclub.com/
http://members.aol.com/StealthTDI/<ul><li><a href="http://www.tdiclub.com/">http://www.tdiclub.com/</a</li></ul>
06-13-2001, 03:22 PM
#7
AudiWorld Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,284
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yup, all the normal tweaks that work on a gas engine...
but obviously some more than others.
A big bore throttle body is right out (diesels don't have throttle plates!)
An exhaust like the TechTonics 2.5" pipe works great
A bigger intercooler is a definite help.
A chip to up boost to around 18 psi (the maximum allowed before you start to exceed the mechanical strength of the motor) is a major help.
Some folks play with the adjustment of the variable vane mechanism in the turbine housing.
bigger injectors = more fuel. Diesels always have surplus air up to the smoke point, so if you can push the fuel delivery system then you can get more power.
intake kits might help, but I don't think intake restriction is a problem.
Diesel burns slowly, so you really can't rev beyond 5000 revs. Because of this, you have to concentrate on low speed cylinder filling and getting torque out the ***.
A truly pimp diesel is as fast as a 1.8T stock. That's not too shabby at 49 mpg.
I have seen them with dyno charts pushing 300 lbs/ft of torque EVERYWHERE. 6.5 second 0-60.
For the real enthusiast there is propane injection, the Nitrous of Diesels.
VW Racing had a touring car TDi that made 186 HP and 300 lb/ft or so. Still slow, but on endurance racing the thriftiness was an advantage becasue of fewer stops for fuel. Not a winner, but a strong competitor.<ul><li><a href="http://forums.vwvortex.com/vwbb/Forum22/HTML/001276.html">Link to dyno runs and such.</a></li></ul>
A big bore throttle body is right out (diesels don't have throttle plates!)
An exhaust like the TechTonics 2.5" pipe works great
A bigger intercooler is a definite help.
A chip to up boost to around 18 psi (the maximum allowed before you start to exceed the mechanical strength of the motor) is a major help.
Some folks play with the adjustment of the variable vane mechanism in the turbine housing.
bigger injectors = more fuel. Diesels always have surplus air up to the smoke point, so if you can push the fuel delivery system then you can get more power.
intake kits might help, but I don't think intake restriction is a problem.
Diesel burns slowly, so you really can't rev beyond 5000 revs. Because of this, you have to concentrate on low speed cylinder filling and getting torque out the ***.
A truly pimp diesel is as fast as a 1.8T stock. That's not too shabby at 49 mpg.
I have seen them with dyno charts pushing 300 lbs/ft of torque EVERYWHERE. 6.5 second 0-60.
For the real enthusiast there is propane injection, the Nitrous of Diesels.
VW Racing had a touring car TDi that made 186 HP and 300 lb/ft or so. Still slow, but on endurance racing the thriftiness was an advantage becasue of fewer stops for fuel. Not a winner, but a strong competitor.<ul><li><a href="http://forums.vwvortex.com/vwbb/Forum22/HTML/001276.html">Link to dyno runs and such.</a></li></ul>
Trending Topics
06-13-2001, 08:42 PM
#8
Elder Member
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 39,901
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yeah, but the torque figures are misleading
Since the engine only revs to 4500 or 5000rpm, it has to be geared up at least 30%. Therefore it loses 30% of the torque at the wheels. So a 300ft/lb diesel has no more torque at the wheels than a 230ft/lb gas engine.
It does however have that torque at the low end instead of the top as in a highly tuned normally aspirated engine.
230ft/lb equivalent is still of course very good for 49mpg. It isn't good compared to a gas engine of equivalent size (with a turbo, as the diesel does also) though.
It does however have that torque at the low end instead of the top as in a highly tuned normally aspirated engine.
230ft/lb equivalent is still of course very good for 49mpg. It isn't good compared to a gas engine of equivalent size (with a turbo, as the diesel does also) though.
06-15-2001, 11:13 AM
#9
AudiWorld Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,284
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No, they are not. your 30% is way off. 6.5 seconds to 60 is 6.5 seconds.
Handily beats 8.0 for an A4 stock.
I agree that the lower rev range puts some compromises on it, but here's the gearing comparison:
TDI 1.8T
1 3.50 3.30
2 1.94 1.94
3 1.23 1.31
4 0.84 1.03
5 0.68 0.84
final 3.89 3.94
3.5x3.89 = 13.165
3.30x3.94 = 13.002
So in first gear, you give up NOTHING from gearing.
Also the TDI has more area under the torque curve, so it is easier to drive. Also as you pointed out, it doesn't have to be revved up as much. They do require a different driving style, you have to shift a bit earlier and pay more attention, but the old mantra that diesels = slow is just not the case any more.
Thanks for the fun conversation.
I agree that the lower rev range puts some compromises on it, but here's the gearing comparison:
TDI 1.8T
1 3.50 3.30
2 1.94 1.94
3 1.23 1.31
4 0.84 1.03
5 0.68 0.84
final 3.89 3.94
3.5x3.89 = 13.165
3.30x3.94 = 13.002
So in first gear, you give up NOTHING from gearing.
Also the TDI has more area under the torque curve, so it is easier to drive. Also as you pointed out, it doesn't have to be revved up as much. They do require a different driving style, you have to shift a bit earlier and pay more attention, but the old mantra that diesels = slow is just not the case any more.
Thanks for the fun conversation.
06-15-2001, 01:30 PM
#10
New Member
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 180
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How bout on an older TD engine? Like a MB's?
Any of you guys ever tried working on a mid 80's Mercedes turbodiesel engine? Can you remap the ECU's on those as well? Who makes the better TD engines? Benz or VW?