carace

<center><img src="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1072990&a=7923846&p=33382966&Sequence=0&res =high"></center><p>I have posted this before but seems like there has been alot of interest in the K04 setup. This dyno is a stock Neuspeed K04 kit without the exhaust manifold work, 2.5" techtonics exhaust and Schrick cams. The Passat has much different gearing compared to the A4 as I understand it. The Passat gets approx. 15 mph per 1,000 rpm in 3rd gear. My best estimate on this graph is 102 mph at 6800 rpm. That was as far as the guy was willing to take it. Somewhere there is some missing power, especially with the addition of the cams. Going by an accepted 15% drive loss, My K04 equipped Passat with cams was putting out 200 hp at the wheels. A very rough 200hp at that. You can see how the power comes and goes in small surges. Not smooth at all. In my opinion the low power figure is caused by a few possibilities. The cams may have hurt the power instead of helping(at least with this setup, your results may vary!). Optomistic power levels advertised. Last but not least, altitude does affect turbos no matter what anyone says! All I can say for sure is that, with said setup and conditions the kit was disappointing at best.

Larrytt

Was the K04 kit and ECU just tuned for the turbo and exhaust? Did the ECU take the Schrick Cam into consideration? If not, then that would surely account for the unhappy feeling you are having about this kit.

That would not be fair to judge a kit on something it was not designed to take into account. If the kit came with the cam, then I apologize.

Mach V Dan

Actually, I've experienced it, and heard others report the same thing. We were dynoing our Wett-chipped K03 A4 1.8tq. Third gear, good smooth curve, 164 wheel hp. Fourth gear, spikey past 4,000 rpms, and only 148 wheel hp.

A customer with a stock Passat 1.8t also saw the same spiking behavior above 4,000.

I think it's knock sensing and timing retard. I figure the car is pinging from high intake temps, retarding timing, the re-advancing it when the ping goes away. Somebody who knows the ECU well, explain if I'm wrong.

We also just bolted a K04 to the Audi, so we'll see what we get in a few days. :^)

What gear was the car in when you made that graph?

--Dan<ul><li><a href="http://www.machvw.com">Mach V Motorsports</a></li></ul>

carace

The cams did not come with the kit. I did forget to mention that after that run I went home and ordered the GIAC software that did take into account the cams. I never did do a dyno run with that setup as I got bored with the power level very quickly but it did run better with the GIAC chip. I do not believe I have ever seen mild performance cams take away 25-40 hp on such a small engine though. Usually what happens is the gains are minimal until things are fine tuned for the cam change. With the pre-dbw cars being completely load based, the ECU should have been able to adjust fuel requirements enough that I would not loose such large amounts of power. I listed the cams because it was possible they were the problem but not likely. Maybe some input from others who have changed cams on various cars?

Clark@turbo5.com

<center><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/AudiWorldPics/2000/ko4.jpg"></center><p>This is my car in PES/GIAC trim. Pretty much maxed out Ko4 setup. I saw 15 psi peak with this setup. For comparison purposes a Stock 1.8t with GIAC 30a(stage1) makes 184hp on this dyno. I believe this is pretty accurate. The Hp and trq also agree with my 1/4 times..

On the Cam subject.. I agree that the non dbw cars should take cams without any problems. I dont think it would have helped the Ko4 that much. I was clearly at the limit of the what the turbo could flow.. I think adding cams to a Ko4 might be a waste.. On a setup like yours its probably a plus.

Clark<ul><li><a href="http://www.turbo5.com">http://www.turbo5.com</a</li></ul>

MySHOcanGo da Avant is slow 4now

What kind of Dyno did you use? Is that @ the wheels or corrected?

OverPSI

I'll bet a G-Tech is more accurate. I know a Vericom is. Clark, go find a REAL dyno and give us some REAL numbers....<ul><li><a href="http://www.charm.net/~mchaney/roaddyno/index.html">In case you were wondering what a Road Dyno is.....</a></li></ul>

SlvrBullet Unloaded

uses the same principles as a real dyno, takes into account vehicle weight/RPM/gearing/weather conditions/vehicle aerodynamics/parasytic driveline loss etc to give a precise graph of power output.and with the AWD system its one of the most relable,consistent and cost effective ways to measure power output! i have measured S4's in various stages of modification and the Dyno graphs are eerily consistent with both the factory graphs and those done on the AWD dyno at UPRD-the baseline power curve gives you a great delta to measure power added by modifications,different chips etc!BTW Clark used to run a "real" dynomometer at a speed shop!

MySHOcanGo da Avant is slow 4now

Nothing like straping your car to a DynoJet 248c and getting some real #'s...

Kimo

OverPSI

You have to enter most of the critical variables with Road Dyno in order to get anywhere near an accurate number...

1.Vehicle Weight - How many people really know their correct vehicle weight(within 10-15lbs)? This is critical to the Road Dyno being correct, but not a factor with a real dyno.

2.Test Conditions - Temp, barometric pressure, relative humidity, and elevation all make a difference. A good chassis or engine dyno has a built in weather station and automatically factors this in for every run. Road Dyno relies on you entering exactly the correct numbers.

3.Frontal Area - Who in the heck knows the frontal area of their car? This, again, is not a factor with a real dyno.

4.Driveline Loss - By FAR the most debatable part of the Road Dyno. There are not even any close estimates of the driveline loss in a Quattro car. Any number would be a guestimate, and this is one of the most critical variables for Road Dyno to be accurate.