thebeev

I looked at the PES t-28 kit, looks pretty much like APR's kit. Does anyone like to comment which I should go with PES t-28 or APR Stage III looks like the PES t-28 is a little more inexpensive

jasyn³

they are NOT the same. at all ..

here are a few of the obvious differences ..

1/ different turbos
- apr uses ceramic ball bearing. gt25
- pes does not. t28
i dont know the specs between the 2 turbos. but they are definitly different.

2/ diff exhaust manifolds
- apr uses inconel (crazy overkill but i like over engineered solutions) =)
- pes uses cast iron(?)

3/ cat
- apr includes what looks like a random brand free flow cat in their kit
- pes does not include any cat

4/ cone intake
- pes includes a cone air intake
- apr does not.
this is something i'm not sure i want on my car anyways. perhaps for track use only. havent decided yet.

5/ price
- apr is 4k
- pes is 3600.
throw in a cat on the pes kit and youre looking at approx the same price.

5/ rated hp/tq numbers
- pes rates ~270 for both
- apr rates 280hp and ~300tqlb
.. that's a big difference. but numbers dont always tell the story. where the power hits .. how long it hits etc etc...

6/ performance .. guesstimated from the dyno plots. pes' dyno at the wheel plot vs apr's at the crank cheesy excel sheet averaged graph.

- apr is smooth .. drives similar to an na car. many have said so from experience.
- pes is more true to turbo feel .. a kick in the pants when boost comes on.

- pes appears to have a flatter torque curve
- pes appears to have a better hp curve

<img src="http://www.pes-tuning.com/Images/1999_a4_baseT28_vs_stock.jpg">

<img src="http://www.goapr.com/images/dyno_stage_iii.gif">

personally .. i'm going to wait and see what happens. when tuners war .. it's the consumers who win. =)

while i think the apr kit is of higher quality .. i'm leaning toward the pes t28 kit right now. apr almost seems to be sitting on their *** (not that i've called them to ask or anything) while pes seems to be on a roll and with a better future for upgrades.

i'm going to wait till early 02 before i decide on a kit. who knows what'll be out by then. =)

thebeev

I'm not going to do any upgrade till after winter anyway because I live in PA and I don't want to mess everything up and lower the car, just better off waiting till after winter. Thanks for the advice, let me know what you end you doing I would greatly appreciate it. My e-mail is the_beev@usa.net, actually I just thought of this(this might be a stupid question, I'm new at this), is it possible to get the APR exhaust manifold and the Garret T-28, of course you would have to have somebody install them. Pretty much like a custom set up. Also do a search on Garrett Turbos with Google I remember finding alot of information about them with Google

Juan M.

well based on the PES i was impressed by how much power it acutally has. the turbo has virtually no flat spot it feels like a K03 chipped then when it starts to pump all hell brakes loose. no surging smooth power delivery.

what impresses me is the mid range pull 2nd and 3rd gear is fun with our cars. the only thing that sucks is that if you don't have a good clutch it will spin it while you are on a 30 or 40mph pull. the car i tested was the CA test car GIAC's own personal car. i can't wait to see the car in action this weekend with the new programs and some minor tweaking. so far the test car feels like a killer. keep an eye out and do check it out first before you put down 4K.

Juan M.
Werks of Art Tuning

jasyn³

but there are possible fitment issues .. if not then i dunno if you would be able the get *just* the apr exhaust manifold.

then there are probably chip management issues as well .. a specific program mated to different hardware. perhaps small differences ..

if i had the time and money .. i'd go down that route .. but then again .. if i had the time and money .. i'd build my own kit. =)

CMH

You wont find a shop that will do a chip for that.

CMH

a fmic will make around 310+ hp.

jasyn³

if i had the time & the money .. but like i said .. then i'd build my own kit. =)

JohnnyP

The APR kit for the plain fact that the Turbo (ceramic ball bearing GT25) is better than the t28.

This is my 2cents.

g8keepR007

it should be putting out roughly 290HP .. but as always they're conservative about #'s. I'd like to say it has 300HP but who the hell cares.. its just a #. I will have to wait until friday to try it out ... then oh boy.. watch out VTECs