Quattro IV vs Subaru AWD
02-01-2004, 06:35 PM
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Quattro IV vs Subaru AWD
I know the Subbies use a vicous coupling center diff versus our Torsen or Haldex. But I was wondering which is a better (if either) system, the Torsen or the Vicous coupling. I'm not too keen on the Haldex system as it is FWD until slippage occurs...not my cup of tea.
Thoughts? Thanks!
Thoughts? Thanks!
02-02-2004, 03:45 AM
#2
It really depends on what one wants to use it for but....
...VC is old technology. Only really being used in cheaper AWD cars so they don't have to go to more complex systems (i.e Saturn Vue).
Comparing VC to TorSen, TorSen will be superior in every way when looking for maximum traction. TorSen is purley mechanical so no slippage is required to transfer torque. With a VC some amount of slippage is required before torque splits will change. This lack of slippage is why TorSen is superior to about anything on the market when looking at traction alone.
The only down side to TorSen is that it can't transfer 100% torque to one axle. The most it can do is around 70/30 or 30/70. Past that you'll get "spin up". Not a big deal but a consideration. Audi gets around most of this problem by implementing EDL. Only really a problem if you stick the the car into a snowbank. I'm not sure how much VC can vary but, IIRC, it can vary 100% one way or the other (not a VC expert by any means though).
One "problem" with both TorSen and VC systems is when trying to high speed drifting. The fact that the systems will vary torque splits (front to back in an Audi) while driving makes it handle different at any one time. If you go into a slide at 50/50 then say part way through the turn it's at 70/30, and then it goes to 30/70 you have to be ready for these changes. Many people aren't ready for the fact that the car will handle like a 4WD vechile, a FWD car, and a RWD car at any time. In this regard a locked, 50/50 split, can be handled easier. I'm not saying that TorSen and VC systems can't be handled like this, it just takes more practice to anticipate the handling changes.
P.S. Make sure you look at the Subbie your talking about. Some of them use VC's and some use the auto clutch type systems; the MB/Porsche type.
Comparing VC to TorSen, TorSen will be superior in every way when looking for maximum traction. TorSen is purley mechanical so no slippage is required to transfer torque. With a VC some amount of slippage is required before torque splits will change. This lack of slippage is why TorSen is superior to about anything on the market when looking at traction alone.
The only down side to TorSen is that it can't transfer 100% torque to one axle. The most it can do is around 70/30 or 30/70. Past that you'll get "spin up". Not a big deal but a consideration. Audi gets around most of this problem by implementing EDL. Only really a problem if you stick the the car into a snowbank. I'm not sure how much VC can vary but, IIRC, it can vary 100% one way or the other (not a VC expert by any means though).
One "problem" with both TorSen and VC systems is when trying to high speed drifting. The fact that the systems will vary torque splits (front to back in an Audi) while driving makes it handle different at any one time. If you go into a slide at 50/50 then say part way through the turn it's at 70/30, and then it goes to 30/70 you have to be ready for these changes. Many people aren't ready for the fact that the car will handle like a 4WD vechile, a FWD car, and a RWD car at any time. In this regard a locked, 50/50 split, can be handled easier. I'm not saying that TorSen and VC systems can't be handled like this, it just takes more practice to anticipate the handling changes.
P.S. Make sure you look at the Subbie your talking about. Some of them use VC's and some use the auto clutch type systems; the MB/Porsche type.
02-02-2004, 05:38 AM
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Yeah, watch out for spider bite...and also take a look at Subaru's latest AWD system in the STi
Electromechanical driver controlled center differential that can be set to rear bias or even locked 50/50. That, in conjunction with the front Torsen and rear plate type LSD, make it a more advanced AWD system than Quattro IV with its EDL "wannabe differentials".
As far as an AWD system goes, I like the STi system better than Quattro IV, at least for snow driving. For Aunt Bessie in her A6, I suspect Quattro IV might be a better choice...but not nearly as much fun.
As far as an AWD system goes, I like the STi system better than Quattro IV, at least for snow driving. For Aunt Bessie in her A6, I suspect Quattro IV might be a better choice...but not nearly as much fun.
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02-03-2004, 08:57 AM
#8
Re: Yeah, watch out for spider bite...and also take a look at Subaru's latest AWD system in the STi
It is my personal opinion that overcompensation/driver error/etc prompts and/or promotes the "spider bite" associated with quattro II-IV. If you can get the car close to a "Steady state" type of cornering, there is no "Spider bite", BTDT. If you mess with the car too much (steering inputs, throttle/brake inputs including heavy LFB) you will definately upset the chassis and start the chain reaction of overcorrection which can get into the O-U-O-etc situation or just straight put the car off track.
I've never had any major problem with the CQ, but I found that it likes smooth driving much better. The Haldex equipped TTq is too front biased IMO and I found it difficult to balance the car with the throttle in the one day of auto-x'ing I did in one. I was calling up too much or too little power, which really hampered my times (that and it wasn't my car so I wasn't going hard on it).
I've never had any major problem with the CQ, but I found that it likes smooth driving much better. The Haldex equipped TTq is too front biased IMO and I found it difficult to balance the car with the throttle in the one day of auto-x'ing I did in one. I was calling up too much or too little power, which really hampered my times (that and it wasn't my car so I wasn't going hard on it).
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