A question for the 1.8T 20V chip tuners...
#1
A question for the 1.8T 20V chip tuners...
Or anyone else who wants to jump in!
With regards to 1.8T 20V performance upgrades, it is immediately apparent that if one wants to surpass 200hp, they MUST install a larger turbo, and re-program the ECU. The most popular swap thus far is the K04 upgrade, but it too has apparent limitations. When checking out all the various upgrade parts suppliers. They claim around 235-245hp max with the K04 & chip. It has also been written many times that the turbo is the restricting factor in making more than this level of power.
Now my question(s)
If the K04 turbo can only provide room for 235-245hp max, then how do the tuners get 250-260hp just by chipping an otherwise stock TT 225? Is the TT 225 K04 turbo a better flowing unit than the aftermarket units?
If someone mentions lower compression ratios, I don't buy it, since a lower compression ratio requires higher boost to compensate. Yes we can run higher boost due to the lower C/R, but the K04 turbo would then be working even harder.
In regards to the Twin ICs, I can understand more HP here, but then why don't the aftermarket IC suppliers show dyno plots proving the benefits of larger aftermarket ICs for all the single IC equipped 1.8Ts? Something just doesn't add up here, since it would be in the supplier's best interest to advertise figures if a larger IC was really better. Don't get me wrong, I know that there is more power in a proper IC set-up, but where are the actual claims that should be provided by the vendors of these items?
I would really like to hear what comments and thoughts are out there.
With regards to 1.8T 20V performance upgrades, it is immediately apparent that if one wants to surpass 200hp, they MUST install a larger turbo, and re-program the ECU. The most popular swap thus far is the K04 upgrade, but it too has apparent limitations. When checking out all the various upgrade parts suppliers. They claim around 235-245hp max with the K04 & chip. It has also been written many times that the turbo is the restricting factor in making more than this level of power.
Now my question(s)
If the K04 turbo can only provide room for 235-245hp max, then how do the tuners get 250-260hp just by chipping an otherwise stock TT 225? Is the TT 225 K04 turbo a better flowing unit than the aftermarket units?
If someone mentions lower compression ratios, I don't buy it, since a lower compression ratio requires higher boost to compensate. Yes we can run higher boost due to the lower C/R, but the K04 turbo would then be working even harder.
In regards to the Twin ICs, I can understand more HP here, but then why don't the aftermarket IC suppliers show dyno plots proving the benefits of larger aftermarket ICs for all the single IC equipped 1.8Ts? Something just doesn't add up here, since it would be in the supplier's best interest to advertise figures if a larger IC was really better. Don't get me wrong, I know that there is more power in a proper IC set-up, but where are the actual claims that should be provided by the vendors of these items?
I would really like to hear what comments and thoughts are out there.
#2
The exhaust portion of the turbo is indeed bigger on a K04 for the 225 TT...
...it's not the same as K04s available for A4s etc. Also I believe there are gains to be had from a better designed exhaust manifold in the 225 TT. Add twin intercoolers, and there you have 250hp.
There were some pics a while ago comparing a TT K04 to other K04s, and the difference was apparent.
Ash
There were some pics a while ago comparing a TT K04 to other K04s, and the difference was apparent.
Ash
#3
I don't think that 235 to 245 is the limit to the K04.
That is just the starting point for some people. There has been one person with something like 280hp out of a K04. I can't comment on how reliable it is, but the power was there regardless. I think IC's help out a little, but with a little, inefficient turbo like a K03/K04 it will help quite a bit to keep the charge air temp down.
Just my thoughts. I drive an A4, I'm not really sure of anything on the TT.
Just my thoughts. I drive an A4, I'm not really sure of anything on the TT.
#4
More PSI boost from 225 model I guess...
"If the K04 turbo can only provide room for 235-245hp max, then how do the tuners get 250-260hp just by chipping an otherwise stock TT 225? Is the TT 225 K04 turbo a better flowing unit than the aftermarket units? "
Is TT 225 K04 a better flowing unit? I don't know. But theory wise...
225TT has bigger air intake(?), and bigger exhaust.
With more pressure difference across turbo, more air will blow turbo much harder and faster. Faster spin = more psi = more power.
Imagine adding K04 turbo to 180TT and you end up with 235HP - turbo may not be fully used due to restricting air intake and exhaust.
So logically upgrading air intake, and then the exhaust will give you more HP, maybe over 260HP.
There is another way. Turbo has wastegate, which controls the speed which Turbo spins at (too fast spin could break turbo). I haven't looked, but this wastegate may be controlled by ECU, or manually by the turbo (I think ECU). Modify this (either by looking at the mechanics of the turbo itself and adjusting the 'arm' which opens and closes the wastegate) or by ecu so it turbo uses less 'wastegate'. Advised, this could blow your turbo.
Buying and installing a pressure gauge (which is not that expensive or hard to install) and observing what modification increses how much PSI will give you the best indication of what is reallying helping your HP and what is not.
Feel free to critisize, with valid points.
Is TT 225 K04 a better flowing unit? I don't know. But theory wise...
225TT has bigger air intake(?), and bigger exhaust.
With more pressure difference across turbo, more air will blow turbo much harder and faster. Faster spin = more psi = more power.
Imagine adding K04 turbo to 180TT and you end up with 235HP - turbo may not be fully used due to restricting air intake and exhaust.
So logically upgrading air intake, and then the exhaust will give you more HP, maybe over 260HP.
There is another way. Turbo has wastegate, which controls the speed which Turbo spins at (too fast spin could break turbo). I haven't looked, but this wastegate may be controlled by ECU, or manually by the turbo (I think ECU). Modify this (either by looking at the mechanics of the turbo itself and adjusting the 'arm' which opens and closes the wastegate) or by ecu so it turbo uses less 'wastegate'. Advised, this could blow your turbo.
Buying and installing a pressure gauge (which is not that expensive or hard to install) and observing what modification increses how much PSI will give you the best indication of what is reallying helping your HP and what is not.
Feel free to critisize, with valid points.
#6
Re: A question for the 1.8T 20V chip tuners...
Thanks guys for the input. I'm trying to figure out just what makes the most difference when it comes to squeezing the most out of a K04 set-up on a 1.8T, while still retaining decent reliability. I have been seriously studying the TT 225 set-up and performance figures and comparing them with other similarily equipped Audis & VWs. I would feel it safe to suggest that the TT 225 can attain slightly higher performance levels mainly due to it's free flowing intake and exhaust systems, as well as it's unique turbo setup.
Why am I looking at all this? I am in the midst of a 1.8T swap, and prefer to add the go-fast items now, rather than later when the engine is installed.
I am also considering a FMIC over twin ICs like the TT 225. I haven't decided which set-up I will use yet, since I haven't determined which will fit the car better, and with less work.
Thanks again for the help!
Why am I looking at all this? I am in the midst of a 1.8T swap, and prefer to add the go-fast items now, rather than later when the engine is installed.
I am also considering a FMIC over twin ICs like the TT 225. I haven't decided which set-up I will use yet, since I haven't determined which will fit the car better, and with less work.
Thanks again for the help!
#7
What kind of intake manifold do you have? One that receives air from the left? or a 180hp version
from the right? Since your car is a Passat with more room, I agree than one FMIC is better than the IMO "hacked" 225TTR dual intercooler which I will eventually swap to a single one to reduce plumbing. The 225 intake manifold will be a nice choice for a front mount cuz you'll have the turbo outlet on one side, through the front mount, then in the other side with less kinks and bends. Should fit, however, AFAIK, 225 receives DBW throttle only, but it should be easily modifiable for a cable throttle for you application I think
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#8
Re: What kind of intake manifold do you have? One that receives air from the left? or a 180hp versi
I have both models, but intend to use the TT 225 intake. My engine already has the DBW, so that won't be an issue.
Since my car was originaly powered by a G60, it has an IC in the driver's (LH) fenderwell. I have been pondering the possibilty of installing my OE 1.8T IC in the RH fenderwell to duplicate the TT install. I don't really like the OE ICs since I believe that they are a bit restrictive, but that is my opinion, and I have no facts to back it up.
Thoughts?
Since my car was originaly powered by a G60, it has an IC in the driver's (LH) fenderwell. I have been pondering the possibilty of installing my OE 1.8T IC in the RH fenderwell to duplicate the TT install. I don't really like the OE ICs since I believe that they are a bit restrictive, but that is my opinion, and I have no facts to back it up.
Thoughts?
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