What mods that TDLracing offers will bring a 12v up to 230 hp....
08-13-2001, 02:40 AM
#2
How about visiting their websight...............
<center><img src="http://www.tdlracing.com/logo3.jpg"></center><p>Everything they offer is on their website.......<ul><li><a href="http://www.tdlracing.com/">http://www.tdlracing.com/</a</li></ul>
08-13-2001, 03:42 PM
#4
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I'm doing the 230HP conversion on the weekend of 8/24. Here's some info for you...
Lloyd (the owner of TDL) told me that I can expect 230HP out of the following:
-Big Valve Heads
-Headers
-Ported Intake Manifold
-Ported Throttle Body
-Exhaust
-Cams
I'm doing all of the above mods with the exception of Cams. TDL is currently developing their own cams for the 12v, and they should be ready in December. I'll install the Cams and a brake kit then.
In addition to the above mods, I'm having a custom air intake system installed that is modeled after the SpeedVision A4 race car intake. This system relocates the battery to the trunk and locates a conical air filter in the cowl where the battery used to be. It is one of the only air intakes for an A4 that offers real performance gains.
I have asked the question, and was told that TDL doesn't show and HP numbers for particular parts because they don't believe in making up numbers. A lot of tuners will "estimate" HP gains from particular parts, but those "estimates" are really nothing more than guesses. One of TDL's engines was dyno tested and that's why they guarantee 230HP.
But make no mistake, the guys at TDL know what they're doing. They have extensive race car building experience and their mods are top-notch quality. Case in point: Lloyd worked with Chrysler to develop the engine and fuel management system on the LeMans Viper. The car won its class that year. Clearly, they know how to build performance mods that work.
I'll post up a bunch of information on the conversion when all of the work is done late this month. Stay tuned.
Oh, and I would encourage you to give TDL a call and ask them some of your questions directly. They have always been very helpful over the phone and give my the straight scoop.
-Big Valve Heads
-Headers
-Ported Intake Manifold
-Ported Throttle Body
-Exhaust
-Cams
I'm doing all of the above mods with the exception of Cams. TDL is currently developing their own cams for the 12v, and they should be ready in December. I'll install the Cams and a brake kit then.
In addition to the above mods, I'm having a custom air intake system installed that is modeled after the SpeedVision A4 race car intake. This system relocates the battery to the trunk and locates a conical air filter in the cowl where the battery used to be. It is one of the only air intakes for an A4 that offers real performance gains.
I have asked the question, and was told that TDL doesn't show and HP numbers for particular parts because they don't believe in making up numbers. A lot of tuners will "estimate" HP gains from particular parts, but those "estimates" are really nothing more than guesses. One of TDL's engines was dyno tested and that's why they guarantee 230HP.
But make no mistake, the guys at TDL know what they're doing. They have extensive race car building experience and their mods are top-notch quality. Case in point: Lloyd worked with Chrysler to develop the engine and fuel management system on the LeMans Viper. The car won its class that year. Clearly, they know how to build performance mods that work.
I'll post up a bunch of information on the conversion when all of the work is done late this month. Stay tuned.
Oh, and I would encourage you to give TDL a call and ask them some of your questions directly. They have always been very helpful over the phone and give my the straight scoop.
08-15-2001, 09:32 AM
#7
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My math tells me it's not a worthwhile investment
I figure that's gotta be
-Big Valve Heads $2995
-EL Headers $2100
-Ported Intake Manifold $250
-Ported Throttle Body $200
-Exhaust $1000
-Cams $1000+
-cold air intake $250 (est.)
About $7800 not including RRFPR or any software/ECU mods. to account for any fuel or timing issues. Then you gotta figure in dyno time to calibrate the software to the engine. I'm thinking that's gotta run somewhere in the $10k range or better when all is said and done.
I'm thinking a 2.8 30v PES SC at $5k for 280hp or a 1.8T stage III at $4k for 280hp sounds better every day. Simple math tells you that $8-10k for 230hp is not a worthwhile investment.
Sell the 12v buy a newer car and get 50 more horsepower at 280 for a lot less $. Gee, tough decision.
-Big Valve Heads $2995
-EL Headers $2100
-Ported Intake Manifold $250
-Ported Throttle Body $200
-Exhaust $1000
-Cams $1000+
-cold air intake $250 (est.)
About $7800 not including RRFPR or any software/ECU mods. to account for any fuel or timing issues. Then you gotta figure in dyno time to calibrate the software to the engine. I'm thinking that's gotta run somewhere in the $10k range or better when all is said and done.
I'm thinking a 2.8 30v PES SC at $5k for 280hp or a 1.8T stage III at $4k for 280hp sounds better every day. Simple math tells you that $8-10k for 230hp is not a worthwhile investment.
Sell the 12v buy a newer car and get 50 more horsepower at 280 for a lot less $. Gee, tough decision.
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08-15-2001, 09:54 AM
#8
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Oh yeah, forgot something
None of those upgrades listed to the 12v, 30v or 1.8T includes install.
Hmm, let's see.
1.8T APR stage-3 280hp install (a few hours)
2.8 30v PES G2-SC 295hp install (a couple hours or DIY if so inclined)
2.8 12v TDL 12v 230hp (at least a day an a half - not a simple DIY job)
At hourly rates, that extra time to install a 12v 230hp upgrade is gonna be a killer! Ouch.
Hmm, let's see.
1.8T APR stage-3 280hp install (a few hours)
2.8 30v PES G2-SC 295hp install (a couple hours or DIY if so inclined)
2.8 12v TDL 12v 230hp (at least a day an a half - not a simple DIY job)
At hourly rates, that extra time to install a 12v 230hp upgrade is gonna be a killer! Ouch.
08-16-2001, 07:58 PM
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Misinformed 230HP
We are the builders of the Speedvision A4 Touring car. We also build the Touring car engines. You have been given some significant disinformation. While we prefer not to create a public scenario, we feel obligated to protect a fellow Audi enthusiast. Please feel free to contact us with any questions you may have. Jon@stasisengineering.com 1-888-9-STASIS
08-17-2001, 09:45 AM
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Whatever, man. If you didn't want to create a public scenario, you could have e-mailed me...
directly. I feel confident dealing with the people at TDL Racing and will continue to do so. And ask around...I know of many people (A4, S4, and early model Audi drivers) on this forum who have been very impressed by TDL's professionalism and no-nonsense approach.
But since you brought it up, I would like to hear (e-mail is preferred, but you're welcome to post it up here) how/why you think that the following list of mods will not yield 230HP:
-Big Valve Heads
-Headers
-Ported Intake Manifold
-Ported Throttle Body
-Exhaust
-Cams
That's a fair amount of engine work, and I don't feel that it would be unreasonable to expect them to offer a 60HP increase. Also, an actual engine/car with high miles that was equipped with fewer mods than the above list achieved 220HP in a dyno test. I don't remember which one of the above-mentioned mods it was missing, but I think you understand my point. The mods on that particular engine were TDL Racing mods, and the numbers were proven.
I don't want to turn this into a war, and I'm sure that you would rather not, as well. I have been told by "people" (and you would probably be surprised at whom those "people" are) that you company is a respected tuner and does excellent work. I also admire the fact that you are trying to "protect" a fellow Audi enthusiast.
But I must say that I'm less than pleased with the methods you employed in this instance. Your post was obviously directed to me specifically, so an e-mail would have served the same purpose.
Posting up a specific reply to my post questioning another tuner's credibility is a cheap move on your part. You are, for lack of a better term, a competitor of TDLs - inasmuch as you are one of the few 12v tuners around.
If you have FACTS, then fine. But please don't post up vague replies with no information, and then leave your company's phone number and e-mail address for people to use to get the alleged scoop. Again, very questionable business practice.
Either be a man, post up the information you supposedly have, and take your licks if necessary - or e-mail me directly. But I'm not going to let you have your cake and eat it, too. It's not fair for you to question another company's integrity on a public forum without facts to back it up.
I have NEVER seen TDL Racing post up ANY information on AudiWorld questioning the integrity/honesty of any other tuner. But it's amazing how many tuners (past or present) crawl out of the woodwork as soon as horsepower numbers are brought up. Belive me...I probably know more of the story than you think. But one of the main reasons that I respect TDL as a company is that they don't lower themselves to the level that many others resort to. They know that they develop excellent products & they're confident in their work...but they clearly don't see the need to badmouth anyone else to prove it. The products & the work speak for themselves.
To wrap it up...If you feel like you have something valid to say, then shoot me an e-mail. If the information is appropriate/accurate, I will extend the courtesy of putting the it on the forum.
Sorry for the long-windedness and I hope to hear from you soon.
Justin
But since you brought it up, I would like to hear (e-mail is preferred, but you're welcome to post it up here) how/why you think that the following list of mods will not yield 230HP:
-Big Valve Heads
-Headers
-Ported Intake Manifold
-Ported Throttle Body
-Exhaust
-Cams
That's a fair amount of engine work, and I don't feel that it would be unreasonable to expect them to offer a 60HP increase. Also, an actual engine/car with high miles that was equipped with fewer mods than the above list achieved 220HP in a dyno test. I don't remember which one of the above-mentioned mods it was missing, but I think you understand my point. The mods on that particular engine were TDL Racing mods, and the numbers were proven.
I don't want to turn this into a war, and I'm sure that you would rather not, as well. I have been told by "people" (and you would probably be surprised at whom those "people" are) that you company is a respected tuner and does excellent work. I also admire the fact that you are trying to "protect" a fellow Audi enthusiast.
But I must say that I'm less than pleased with the methods you employed in this instance. Your post was obviously directed to me specifically, so an e-mail would have served the same purpose.
Posting up a specific reply to my post questioning another tuner's credibility is a cheap move on your part. You are, for lack of a better term, a competitor of TDLs - inasmuch as you are one of the few 12v tuners around.
If you have FACTS, then fine. But please don't post up vague replies with no information, and then leave your company's phone number and e-mail address for people to use to get the alleged scoop. Again, very questionable business practice.
Either be a man, post up the information you supposedly have, and take your licks if necessary - or e-mail me directly. But I'm not going to let you have your cake and eat it, too. It's not fair for you to question another company's integrity on a public forum without facts to back it up.
I have NEVER seen TDL Racing post up ANY information on AudiWorld questioning the integrity/honesty of any other tuner. But it's amazing how many tuners (past or present) crawl out of the woodwork as soon as horsepower numbers are brought up. Belive me...I probably know more of the story than you think. But one of the main reasons that I respect TDL as a company is that they don't lower themselves to the level that many others resort to. They know that they develop excellent products & they're confident in their work...but they clearly don't see the need to badmouth anyone else to prove it. The products & the work speak for themselves.
To wrap it up...If you feel like you have something valid to say, then shoot me an e-mail. If the information is appropriate/accurate, I will extend the courtesy of putting the it on the forum.
Sorry for the long-windedness and I hope to hear from you soon.
Justin
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