Audi warranty worthless to us
07-05-2016, 10:00 PM
#11
AudiWorld Super User
@MP4.2+6.0 You have a point there about the brakes being beefy enough for Autobahn use. That portion of my post you quoted I experienced in my old '98 Nissan 200SX. The brakes on that one were 'just the right size' with no headroom to take the rigors of daily city driving. No question that the Q5 brakes will do their job especially on the Autobahn. However, what we do not know is how the OP uses brakes especially downhill. I regularly visit a client whose location is up a steep hill. The hill side is a 3.1 km stretch of road. When I drive downhill, I shift to manual mode and stay in M4 then apply the brakes once in a while to maintain the allowed speed limit. I make sure I allow the brakes to cool down a bit before applying them again. I see other cars' brake lights on continuously all the way down that stretch. That will surely overheat the brakes to a point that the rotors will eventually warp after repeated drives through that same area.
The OP's drive to Alaska through Alberta includes going up and down the Rockies and other mountainous areas in Northern BC and Alaska. That means a lot of long downhill roads. Having your foot constantly on the brakes for long durations will eventually warp the rotors due to heat build-up even if they're designed to take Autobahn speeds. In the Autobahn, you do not slow down often unless there is traffic or you're nearing your exit. You apply brakes for only a few hundred feet to get down to the right speed or stop. This kind of braking action is not enough to warp these brakes.
We do not know the OP's braking habits but the braking scenario I described above and the mountainous areas with lots of downhill drives will cause the brake discs to warp and pads to wear out faster than normal city driving.
The OP's drive to Alaska through Alberta includes going up and down the Rockies and other mountainous areas in Northern BC and Alaska. That means a lot of long downhill roads. Having your foot constantly on the brakes for long durations will eventually warp the rotors due to heat build-up even if they're designed to take Autobahn speeds. In the Autobahn, you do not slow down often unless there is traffic or you're nearing your exit. You apply brakes for only a few hundred feet to get down to the right speed or stop. This kind of braking action is not enough to warp these brakes.
We do not know the OP's braking habits but the braking scenario I described above and the mountainous areas with lots of downhill drives will cause the brake discs to warp and pads to wear out faster than normal city driving.
Another factor is babying the brakes and never properly bedding them in. Especially before driving in an environment that's hard on the brakes. For brakes to perform properly and last, they need to be bedded in, so that there is a thin layer of brake pad material on the rotor instead of the brake pads scraping directly against the metal. Babying the brakes is the exact opposite of what one should do. Brakes are relatively cheap wear items and are designed to need replacement at some point. There is no point in babying them and have subpar performance or early failure as a result.
Unless OP had faulty brakes from the factory, the most likely reason for this outcome is his/her driving style. Audi does warranty the brakes for the first 10,000 miles or something like that if the failure is determined to be faulty brakes from the factory, but 9 out of 10 times, the problem is the driver and not the brakes.
Last edited by superswiss; 07-05-2016 at 10:05 PM.
07-06-2016, 05:57 AM
#12
AudiWorld Member
So, to sum it all up, while I understand OP's frustration, I see no fault on Audi's side. I've never heard of any first-party warranty which would cover "wear and tear" items, even if they are expensive ones. I would however suggest considering investing in ceramic brakes - as far as I know they are less susceptible to improper (ab-)use.
07-06-2016, 10:43 AM
#13
AudiWorld Super User
Go find a shyster lawyer.
If ordinary environmental conditions, such as ordinary road salt, could in a short time destroy a car that is advertised and sold specifically because of the superior way it works in winter driving habitats....
OK, then I'd call that a design defect (failing to shroud and protect the rotors, which are much more exposed in today's peek-a-boo wheels than they used to be) and I'd call it a concealed manufacturing defect which the manufacturer knew about (shades of dieselgate) and hid from the customer.
That shyster lawyer ought to be able to get Audi to pay up rather quickly, and he should go for the hotel bill, overnight expenses, and something for your inconvenience as well as his fees.
Audi probably knows that they stand about a zero chance of winning (at least, in any US court) if they try to say "Well, one winter driving trip, with no maintenance being recommended to the owner or required under warranty terms, is sufficient to destroy critical safety equipment."
And then too, the NHTSA would just love to hear that the brakes on an Audi can be destroyed in one season of routine winter driving. They could order a recall and replacement of all similar vehicles.
If someone at Audi has any idea of what "Dieselgate" is doing to the company...they just might be wise to answer the lawyer's letter, make real nice real fast, and save themselves a world of pain.
Because there's no way they are going to win this in court. Even in small claims court--most of which would cover $2000 in repairs, and typically cost you $250-50 without requiring an attorney. (Although I'd still suggest an attorney's letter is a cheaper more effective opening salvo.)
The dog at my homework, right.
If ordinary environmental conditions, such as ordinary road salt, could in a short time destroy a car that is advertised and sold specifically because of the superior way it works in winter driving habitats....
OK, then I'd call that a design defect (failing to shroud and protect the rotors, which are much more exposed in today's peek-a-boo wheels than they used to be) and I'd call it a concealed manufacturing defect which the manufacturer knew about (shades of dieselgate) and hid from the customer.
That shyster lawyer ought to be able to get Audi to pay up rather quickly, and he should go for the hotel bill, overnight expenses, and something for your inconvenience as well as his fees.
Audi probably knows that they stand about a zero chance of winning (at least, in any US court) if they try to say "Well, one winter driving trip, with no maintenance being recommended to the owner or required under warranty terms, is sufficient to destroy critical safety equipment."
And then too, the NHTSA would just love to hear that the brakes on an Audi can be destroyed in one season of routine winter driving. They could order a recall and replacement of all similar vehicles.
If someone at Audi has any idea of what "Dieselgate" is doing to the company...they just might be wise to answer the lawyer's letter, make real nice real fast, and save themselves a world of pain.
Because there's no way they are going to win this in court. Even in small claims court--most of which would cover $2000 in repairs, and typically cost you $250-50 without requiring an attorney. (Although I'd still suggest an attorney's letter is a cheaper more effective opening salvo.)
The dog at my homework, right.
07-06-2016, 11:26 AM
#15
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Just my $0.02, but I've seen people tear up a set of brakes and rotors in 20 miles in the mountains. Not saying at all that's what OP had going on, but expecting any mfg warranty is going to cover brakes at all is unrealistic.
Usually, one can get a year/12k miles on "manufacturing defects" (see aluminum-hat rotor warping from many mfgs, leaking caliper, squealing pads, etc), but once there's substantial wear that covers more than one wheel, you're outta luck
Usually, one can get a year/12k miles on "manufacturing defects" (see aluminum-hat rotor warping from many mfgs, leaking caliper, squealing pads, etc), but once there's substantial wear that covers more than one wheel, you're outta luck
07-06-2016, 03:43 PM
#16
[QUOTE=Redd;24831363]Go find a shyster lawyer.
If ordinary environmental conditions, such as ordinary road salt, could in a short time destroy a car that is advertised and sold specifically because of the superior way it works in winter driving habitats....
OK, then I'd call that a design defect (failing to shroud and protect the rotors, which are much more exposed in today's peek-a-boo wheels than they used to be) and I'd call it a concealed manufacturing defect which the manufacturer knew about (shades of dieselgate) and hid from the customer.
That shyster lawyer ought to be able to get Audi to pay up rather quickly, and he should go for the hotel bill, overnight expenses, and something for your inconvenience as well as his fees.
Audi probably knows that they stand about a zero chance of winning (at least, in any US court) if they try to say "Well, one winter driving trip, with no maintenance being recommended to the owner or required under warranty terms, is sufficient to destroy critical safety equipment."
And then too, the NHTSA would just love to hear that the brakes on an Audi can be destroyed in one season of routine winter driving. They could order a recall and replacement of all similar vehicles.
If someone at Audi has any idea of what "Dieselgate" is doing to the company...they just might be wise to answer the lawyer's letter, make real nice real fast, and save themselves a world of pain.
Because there's no way they are going to win this in court. Even in small claims court--most of which would cover $2000 in repairs, and typically cost you $250-50 without requiring an attorney. (Although I'd still suggest an attorney's letter is a cheaper more effective opening salvo
Thanks for advice REDD, I appreciate intelligent constructive comments.
Here Canada we are not often as successful in our litigious efforts as the USA. PLus that fact that lawyers are quite expensive. But we will see what happens, I see Audi customer service has left an email for us to call. Unfortunately we are on the road backtracking to our trip to the Alaskan panhandle and have no cell service till maybe tomorrow. Note; no gravel roads experienced or expected.
I got to see all the rotors before I left the Audi dealership and can tell everyone on the forum, that they look like they came from a car with 100,000 miles on it!
As an ex military weapons tech, diesel mechanic before doing my mechanical engineering studies, followed by 30 years as a mechanical planner, general foreman. Can assure this group, I know more about disc brakes, metallurgy, and how to drive in the mountains than most will ever know. You do learn something in 50 years being around and managing machinery everyday!
I have spent many years, driving in the mountains, and have never lost a rotor or brake pad because of my "operator error", that's just total BS to suggest. So why the failure? Only a couple of reasons come to mind readily.
The rotors are defective, or poor metallurgical composition.
The pads were all contaminated or poor composition.
The rotors are such that carbon content was unsuitable for northern climates and easily corroded causing the pads to accelerate the rotor degradation.
My intent was to inform the forum of the warranty rider issue that Audi has placed on honouring this type of brake issue. I was not expecting a critique, as some suggested that perhaps it's my own fault and don't know how to drive!
Remember, this car had 4000 miles when we started this trip! And discs don't wear on long trips crossing the great plains of the USA. Contrary to one members comments.
I am still convinced that one of the above is a major contributor to the problem. But as I say, just wanted others to know of the warranty issue. They can do and think whatever they like, thats their perogative. Just don't tell me I caused this! I know better!
Cheers
Continuing the journey tomorrow!
If ordinary environmental conditions, such as ordinary road salt, could in a short time destroy a car that is advertised and sold specifically because of the superior way it works in winter driving habitats....
OK, then I'd call that a design defect (failing to shroud and protect the rotors, which are much more exposed in today's peek-a-boo wheels than they used to be) and I'd call it a concealed manufacturing defect which the manufacturer knew about (shades of dieselgate) and hid from the customer.
That shyster lawyer ought to be able to get Audi to pay up rather quickly, and he should go for the hotel bill, overnight expenses, and something for your inconvenience as well as his fees.
Audi probably knows that they stand about a zero chance of winning (at least, in any US court) if they try to say "Well, one winter driving trip, with no maintenance being recommended to the owner or required under warranty terms, is sufficient to destroy critical safety equipment."
And then too, the NHTSA would just love to hear that the brakes on an Audi can be destroyed in one season of routine winter driving. They could order a recall and replacement of all similar vehicles.
If someone at Audi has any idea of what "Dieselgate" is doing to the company...they just might be wise to answer the lawyer's letter, make real nice real fast, and save themselves a world of pain.
Because there's no way they are going to win this in court. Even in small claims court--most of which would cover $2000 in repairs, and typically cost you $250-50 without requiring an attorney. (Although I'd still suggest an attorney's letter is a cheaper more effective opening salvo
Thanks for advice REDD, I appreciate intelligent constructive comments.
Here Canada we are not often as successful in our litigious efforts as the USA. PLus that fact that lawyers are quite expensive. But we will see what happens, I see Audi customer service has left an email for us to call. Unfortunately we are on the road backtracking to our trip to the Alaskan panhandle and have no cell service till maybe tomorrow. Note; no gravel roads experienced or expected.
I got to see all the rotors before I left the Audi dealership and can tell everyone on the forum, that they look like they came from a car with 100,000 miles on it!
As an ex military weapons tech, diesel mechanic before doing my mechanical engineering studies, followed by 30 years as a mechanical planner, general foreman. Can assure this group, I know more about disc brakes, metallurgy, and how to drive in the mountains than most will ever know. You do learn something in 50 years being around and managing machinery everyday!
I have spent many years, driving in the mountains, and have never lost a rotor or brake pad because of my "operator error", that's just total BS to suggest. So why the failure? Only a couple of reasons come to mind readily.
The rotors are defective, or poor metallurgical composition.
The pads were all contaminated or poor composition.
The rotors are such that carbon content was unsuitable for northern climates and easily corroded causing the pads to accelerate the rotor degradation.
My intent was to inform the forum of the warranty rider issue that Audi has placed on honouring this type of brake issue. I was not expecting a critique, as some suggested that perhaps it's my own fault and don't know how to drive!
Remember, this car had 4000 miles when we started this trip! And discs don't wear on long trips crossing the great plains of the USA. Contrary to one members comments.
I am still convinced that one of the above is a major contributor to the problem. But as I say, just wanted others to know of the warranty issue. They can do and think whatever they like, thats their perogative. Just don't tell me I caused this! I know better!
Cheers
Continuing the journey tomorrow!
07-06-2016, 04:25 PM
#17
AudiWorld Super User
Good luck with your resolving this fairly. You have a recently new vehicle. You have to ask Audi corporate for assistance. Document your problem. Did you retain the damaged pads and rotors? You are looking for consumer protection from either Audi or your State authority. This is about goodwill. Usually a manufacturer will do it once for a customer in a grey area such as this.
07-06-2016, 05:38 PM
#18
Yup...both the dealer and myself asked for assistance on this issue and were turned done flat!
The discs are staying in Edmonton, the car is full and I'm not hauling 120 lbs of rotors and pads back to Ontario.
The discs are staying in Edmonton, the car is full and I'm not hauling 120 lbs of rotors and pads back to Ontario.
07-06-2016, 06:30 PM
#19
AudiWorld Super User
Shyster lawyer? Good luck with that. Finding an attorney that would be willing to take on a $2000 case like this whereby the limited warranty is clear about coverage, would very likely be a waste of time and effort. Unless there are a plethora of owners with the same issue that could engage in a class action lawsuit, even paying a few hundred dollars to have a lawyer send a letter is just tossing good money after bad.
Now, if instead of a wearable item, this was a case of a seized engine being turned down for a warranty claim that occurred clearly through no fault of the owner, that might be a different story and worth the effort and further expense of finding a "shyster lawyer".
Now, if instead of a wearable item, this was a case of a seized engine being turned down for a warranty claim that occurred clearly through no fault of the owner, that might be a different story and worth the effort and further expense of finding a "shyster lawyer".
07-06-2016, 09:31 PM
#20
jcampbell, what's the whole story? Do you live in Ontario? Where did you buy this car, and did you actually drive it all the way to Alaska and attempt to drive it back to Ontario and it broke down in Edmonton?