Aux Coolant Pump (Fire) recall update
09-28-2018, 01:14 PM
#11
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
The old (original) aux cooling pump design is faulty. There is nothing to replace it with, unless you want to build an auxiliary cool-down system.
Sounds like a Catch-22 designed by Audi's marketing team: "Yah, vell, we make them choose, to burn down their houses or to use up their engines so they must buy another new Audi so many years sooner! Ve vill make SO MANY new sales with this!"
Clever, ain't they?
Actually all part of a larger issue, apparently the problem of "crud" clogging the pumps is because VWG uses a bad aluminum alloy in their engine blocks, which in turn requires the use of silicon silicate antileak/anticorrosive additives, which are a long and widely known problem. Among other things they cause blockages and crud, but VWG needs them because of inferior alloys. So...round and round it goes.
As Her Late Imperial Majesty said, "We are not amused."
Sounds like a Catch-22 designed by Audi's marketing team: "Yah, vell, we make them choose, to burn down their houses or to use up their engines so they must buy another new Audi so many years sooner! Ve vill make SO MANY new sales with this!"
Clever, ain't they?
Actually all part of a larger issue, apparently the problem of "crud" clogging the pumps is because VWG uses a bad aluminum alloy in their engine blocks, which in turn requires the use of silicon silicate antileak/anticorrosive additives, which are a long and widely known problem. Among other things they cause blockages and crud, but VWG needs them because of inferior alloys. So...round and round it goes.
As Her Late Imperial Majesty said, "We are not amused."
09-28-2018, 01:39 PM
#12
AudiWorld Senior Member
Hey Redd I'm impressed by your knowledge of our former head of state.As to the whole coolant system weaknesses thing that sounds nasty.Odd because my experience with Audi cooling systems has been quite positive as long as the correct coolant is replaced at the proper interval.But then again this "new fangled" supplementary cooling pump and plastic veined water pump stuff is troubling.Thankfully I have a Tdi.
09-28-2018, 01:56 PM
#13
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
Murray-
In the 70's I had a second-hand 289 Mustang. Fun car even if it was a POS in many ways. I found out that you couldn't get any heat in the winter, no matter what you did. Apparently there was simply a design error, the dealer (who I later found out was one of the top Ford dealers in the country, an incredibly ahead-of-the-times place) said that the only fix was to remove some part of the heater valve and grind some metal off it, apparently that would increase the flow to the heater coil, go figure. And, one of the engine valves burned, the p/s one next to the firewall apparently was never cooled properly in the original design, the 302 block supposedly fixed that.
But yeah, I got educated (I think) on cooling. The big thing then was the Dow? Xerex? new stuff with sodium silicate in it, to protect metals and seal leaks. Yeah, ahuh. Then I found out that 'seals' means it left a coating of waterglass all over things, which was great until it DID and WOULD eventually flake off and cause clots. And I went back to plain Chrysler/Dodge/Mopar antifreeze, with nothing in it, and adding a can of "water pump lubricant" and anticorrosives every second year. Rocket science--you can't even find that in the stores any more!
Anyway...I can appreciate that Detroit, Japan, Germany, all have different groundwater and reasons for different coolants. But VWG's *requirement* for using a product that is known to cause collateral damage....who the hell thinks to ask these things before looking at cars?(G) I'm not sure how much of the VWG-spec coolant is just plain FUD, but for now I'm dancing with the one I came with. Happily or otherwise, ahem.
I'm planning to just change the damned coolant myself, which should flush out crud and minimize pump clog issues. The rest...Dunno. I won't let it keep me up tonight.
In the 70's I had a second-hand 289 Mustang. Fun car even if it was a POS in many ways. I found out that you couldn't get any heat in the winter, no matter what you did. Apparently there was simply a design error, the dealer (who I later found out was one of the top Ford dealers in the country, an incredibly ahead-of-the-times place) said that the only fix was to remove some part of the heater valve and grind some metal off it, apparently that would increase the flow to the heater coil, go figure. And, one of the engine valves burned, the p/s one next to the firewall apparently was never cooled properly in the original design, the 302 block supposedly fixed that.
But yeah, I got educated (I think) on cooling. The big thing then was the Dow? Xerex? new stuff with sodium silicate in it, to protect metals and seal leaks. Yeah, ahuh. Then I found out that 'seals' means it left a coating of waterglass all over things, which was great until it DID and WOULD eventually flake off and cause clots. And I went back to plain Chrysler/Dodge/Mopar antifreeze, with nothing in it, and adding a can of "water pump lubricant" and anticorrosives every second year. Rocket science--you can't even find that in the stores any more!
Anyway...I can appreciate that Detroit, Japan, Germany, all have different groundwater and reasons for different coolants. But VWG's *requirement* for using a product that is known to cause collateral damage....who the hell thinks to ask these things before looking at cars?(G) I'm not sure how much of the VWG-spec coolant is just plain FUD, but for now I'm dancing with the one I came with. Happily or otherwise, ahem.
I'm planning to just change the damned coolant myself, which should flush out crud and minimize pump clog issues. The rest...Dunno. I won't let it keep me up tonight.
09-28-2018, 02:52 PM
#14
AudiWorld Super User
BUT WAIT, IT GETS BETTER!
Since I was passing by the dealership today, I stopped in to ask about the recall notice. Either I've forgotten how to read, or AoA are up to the old games again.
Service writer looked it up, and confirmed THEY DO NOT SIMPLY UNPLUG THE AUX COOLING PUMP. This being the pump that is "at" the turbine to keep it cooled down especially after engine shut-down.
They unplug the pump and then, as I had been wondering, THEY INSTALL A JUMPER so the ECU won't throw a fit about the auxiliary cooling pump being unplugged. So, they can't just "unplug it", they need an hour to schedule a procedure. OK. So I ask the nice man, if my turbine needs that cooling pump, and I'm going to be driving without it for a month or three, isn't that going to, you know, affect the longevity of the turbo?
Yup. He's expecting that AoA will issue an extended warranty on the turbo parts because of the anticipating higher rate of damage caused by running them without the auxiliary cooling pump. Isn't that nice of them?
So...perform the interim fix, disconnect the pump, and wait to see if the engine slags down at some future date? Or, wait for a new pump in January, and hope the car does or doesn't burn to the ground before then?
Decisions, decisions....I'm surprised they don't offer to simply disable the entire turbo unit in the interim. Or...dare I ask, can VCGS disable the turbo? Please please?
Since I was passing by the dealership today, I stopped in to ask about the recall notice. Either I've forgotten how to read, or AoA are up to the old games again.
Service writer looked it up, and confirmed THEY DO NOT SIMPLY UNPLUG THE AUX COOLING PUMP. This being the pump that is "at" the turbine to keep it cooled down especially after engine shut-down.
They unplug the pump and then, as I had been wondering, THEY INSTALL A JUMPER so the ECU won't throw a fit about the auxiliary cooling pump being unplugged. So, they can't just "unplug it", they need an hour to schedule a procedure. OK. So I ask the nice man, if my turbine needs that cooling pump, and I'm going to be driving without it for a month or three, isn't that going to, you know, affect the longevity of the turbo?
Yup. He's expecting that AoA will issue an extended warranty on the turbo parts because of the anticipating higher rate of damage caused by running them without the auxiliary cooling pump. Isn't that nice of them?
So...perform the interim fix, disconnect the pump, and wait to see if the engine slags down at some future date? Or, wait for a new pump in January, and hope the car does or doesn't burn to the ground before then?
Decisions, decisions....I'm surprised they don't offer to simply disable the entire turbo unit in the interim. Or...dare I ask, can VCGS disable the turbo? Please please?
You will never know if the turbo is doing a slow death, or how the accelerated wear and tear slowly affects performance. Offering an extended turbo warranty is a joke as it would only go into effect if there was a turbo failure. It won't cover reduced performance from abnormal wear.
Even though I have basically zero problems with my Q5, especially the great acceleration without any hesitation at all, and a smooth up/down shifting transmission, the problem history (excessive oil burning, tensioner failure, many safety recalls, etc. etc.) of the Q5 is unacceptable. This wasn't the Audi quality of the past. Go read the Gen II Q5 issues and that Q5 hasn't had a few years under its belt for the problems to get worse.
Jaguar and Volvo are now on my short list of SUV's to replace the Q5.
REDD, one last thing, why do you keep your Q5 if it isn't up to your standards?
I had two great Audi A4's, a great Q5, two great VW GTI's, but it is now time for me to change brands for my next SUV, but I will still be keeping my zero issues, rock solid, reliable, easy and super cheap to repair 2014 Honda CRV!
Last edited by Bob Petruska; 09-28-2018 at 03:03 PM.
09-29-2018, 02:15 AM
#15
AudiWorld Super User
1. Knocking sound in the engine. The knocking sound is usually caused by the Evap canister purge valve. Very often users forget to adjust valves in time, and they start making the noise.
After every 24,000 miles, valves are to be adjusted, if you hear a noise.
The valve clearances for the cold engine are 0.18-0.22 mm for intake valves, and 0.23-0.27 mm for exhaust valves.
My wife's fuel consumption at 80,000km has increased and I believe she needs to have these valves adjusted before engine failure occurs.
2. Noise. R20A engines can make noise due to the tensioner pulley failure, which has the service life of about 60,000 miles, sometimes less. Check it and replace if necessary.
3. Vibrations. In case of cold start this is normal, since the engine has low idle speed. If the vibration is too strong, check engine mounts, especially the left one.
09-29-2018, 08:58 AM
#16
AudiWorld Super User
CR-V Gen 4 2.0l problems
1. Knocking sound in the engine. The knocking sound is usually caused by the Evap canister purge valve. Very often users forget to adjust valves in time, and they start making the noise.
After every 24,000 miles, valves are to be adjusted, if you hear a noise.
The valve clearances for the cold engine are 0.18-0.22 mm for intake valves, and 0.23-0.27 mm for exhaust valves.
My wife's fuel consumption at 80,000km has increased and I believe she needs to have these valves adjusted before engine failure occurs.
2. Noise. R20A engines can make noise due to the tensioner pulley failure, which has the service life of about 60,000 miles, sometimes less. Check it and replace if necessary.
3. Vibrations. In case of cold start this is normal, since the engine has low idle speed. If the vibration is too strong, check engine mounts, especially the left one.
1. Knocking sound in the engine. The knocking sound is usually caused by the Evap canister purge valve. Very often users forget to adjust valves in time, and they start making the noise.
After every 24,000 miles, valves are to be adjusted, if you hear a noise.
The valve clearances for the cold engine are 0.18-0.22 mm for intake valves, and 0.23-0.27 mm for exhaust valves.
My wife's fuel consumption at 80,000km has increased and I believe she needs to have these valves adjusted before engine failure occurs.
2. Noise. R20A engines can make noise due to the tensioner pulley failure, which has the service life of about 60,000 miles, sometimes less. Check it and replace if necessary.
3. Vibrations. In case of cold start this is normal, since the engine has low idle speed. If the vibration is too strong, check engine mounts, especially the left one.
09-29-2018, 10:41 AM
#17
AudiWorld Super User
MY US CRV doesn't have a 2.0L engine, it's a 2.4L. Zero problems. My 2014 has 50K miles (1 set of brake pads, a battery, on 3rd set of tires, 2 cabin filters, 2 air cleaner filters, changed rear differential fluid, that's it). Many of my relatives drive Hondas, some have 150K+ miles without any major repairs, mostly just brakes, rotors, and batteries. No wheel bearings, front suspension pieces, transmission issues, they just go on, and on, and on...... This is why these people buy them, a vehicle is just a mode of transportation for them, they want it to work when they get in each time. They don't worship their cars, they just use them. Plus parts and service are super dirt cheap than an Audi. Independent garages around here repair Honda's with ease, they won't touch Audi's, BMW's etc.
When I purchased the 2013 CR-V EX 2.0l I did some off road tests. Rear wheels failed to engage, when front wheels slipped on a soft sand. Switching ESP off did not help. Solution AWD update.
Second failure was the Deflation Warning System alarm without the car having a puncture. Solution ECU/ABS firmware update. Note all updates were not mandatory so no letters were sent.
My Wifes Steering Wheel is hard to turn compared to my Q5 1N3 (ADS comfort setting) Not to mention he 165 cm ground clearance the CR-V came with.
CR-V comes with most technologies but lacks on programming and detailing (those Honda programmers just design for the basics), lacks part diagrams, lacks service manual and other (you know which ones I am referring I think), lacks continuous software and hardware development, lacks Electrical Diagrams +++++++. For this reason I believe that Q5 for a technology conscious minded, retrofit enthusiast, performance oriented, offroad enthusiast, ERWIN enthusiast, family people with a luxury orientation the choices are not many, CR-V of course will never enter that list, difference between the two is mega and not marginal. The Q5 2.0T is basicly a MACAN disguised or vice versa.
Note, you know I am not affiliated with Audi apart from owing a Q5 2.0T 2009.
I use Castrol fluid, I buy rotors from germany, I buy pads from textar, I buy second hand for retrofits (unless I need the dealer), etc I retrofit most myself (unless I need a mechanic), I service the car with my mechanic. I prefer to upgrade the Q5 than buying a different car.
Basicly cost of servicing my Q5 is same like my CR-V and my Q5 cost me much less to acquire due to being second hand. (say after servicing transmission and engine and replacing tyres 14500 less). Still we only use the Q5 when we travel, because we feel safer and more comfortable to travel with.
Last edited by apoelistas; 09-29-2018 at 11:30 AM.
10-01-2018, 11:24 AM
#18
Friend bought a brand new CRV 1.5T last year, 20K km after his oil level went up, yes, up, guess what? Fuel contamination, and he's not alone: Oil Dilution | Honda Problems
BTW, I own a 2009 2.0T Q5 as well, the MY with all the issues you can imagine. The last one, a failed Intake Manifold (nothing major though, no CEL, just rough idle, stuck flaps probably due to carbon buildup), a money pit at its best indeed, but it drives like no other vehicle of its category and the offroad capabilities are only (very close) second to Subaru.
BTW, I own a 2009 2.0T Q5 as well, the MY with all the issues you can imagine. The last one, a failed Intake Manifold (nothing major though, no CEL, just rough idle, stuck flaps probably due to carbon buildup), a money pit at its best indeed, but it drives like no other vehicle of its category and the offroad capabilities are only (very close) second to Subaru.
10-01-2018, 09:43 PM
#19
AudiWorld Super User
Friend bought a brand new CRV 1.5T last year, 20K km after his oil level went up, yes, up, guess what? Fuel contamination, and he's not alone: Oil Dilution | Honda Problems
BTW, I own a 2009 2.0T Q5 as well, the MY with all the issues you can imagine. The last one, a failed Intake Manifold (nothing major though, no CEL, just rough idle, stuck flaps probably due to carbon buildup), a money pit at its best indeed, but it drives like no other vehicle of its category and the offroad capabilities are only (very close) second to Subaru.
BTW, I own a 2009 2.0T Q5 as well, the MY with all the issues you can imagine. The last one, a failed Intake Manifold (nothing major though, no CEL, just rough idle, stuck flaps probably due to carbon buildup), a money pit at its best indeed, but it drives like no other vehicle of its category and the offroad capabilities are only (very close) second to Subaru.
May come second to Subary (though we need to do offroad tests to be sure) just because it is Torsen type 3 which uses a locking torque bias 4:1. Facelift S-tronic came with Crown center differential which surpasses the Subaru AWD performance (passive torque vectoring + 100% lock capability). Facelift S-tronic has this advantage. Also Subary is using a CVT transmission technology with upto 350Nm capability (so they claim). How does that behave with AWD systems and hill climb situations remains to be seen. Also Honda CR-V 2018 automatic comes with CVT transmission and clutch/discs type hydraulic/pump AWD system with upto just 40% rear torque capability. Even it its AWD manages o exceed that 40% rear torque limit due to the more capable AWD pump (the only redesign they made to their 2017 AWD system), then overheat issues will appear in high rear toque AWD situations. That can not be compared with any Audi automatic transmission (550Nm capability) or quattro technology (comes with center differential).
The all-new Acura RDX 2019 2.0l is the only Honda SUV that can compete with the Q5. Available Super Handling All-Wheel Drive™ (SH-AWD), this was not available with the older generation Acura, with 272ps VTEC Turbo capability and 10-Speed Automatic Transmission with Sequential SportShift Paddle Shifter.
Last edited by apoelistas; 10-02-2018 at 05:57 AM.
10-24-2018, 06:44 PM
#20
AudiWorld Senior Member
I’m about a month+ overdue on taking my Q5 in for its annual “physical,” mainly because I’ve been avoiding this temporary fix and am guessing I can’t tell them not to perform the recall. Plus, I dont want to have to schlep back in a few months later for the real fix. However, the recall was beneficial in that I got double Audi customer loyalty incentive, when buying my A5 Sportback last month.