Heavy knocking vibration, turning at low speed
01-10-2018, 07:04 PM
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Heavy knocking vibration, turning at low speed
A similar post may have already been posted with similar problems, but i would like to add my response from an Audi dealership.
(2013 Q5 3.0 tdi S-Line)
I was getting a heavy clunking, juddering through the wheels (20" rims) when turning in a tight circle. I initially thought it was the Torson, Crown or CV Joint or similar, however according to Audi, because the alloys were recently removed to be refurbished & painted, they assume that they never went back onto the same locations they came off from, therefore this is the reason the heavy juddering whilst turning.
Audi also spoke about the tread depth causing some of the problem. The Michelins currently have at least 3mm on them, so i have no idea what they are talking about... unless someone can educate me. New rubber ordered for Monday, so ill see if that makes the difference like they say.
Im getting the car back tomorrow, ill update on the Audi report and any further problems. In the meantime, anyone any suggestions, please let me know. Thanks.
(2013 Q5 3.0 tdi S-Line)
I was getting a heavy clunking, juddering through the wheels (20" rims) when turning in a tight circle. I initially thought it was the Torson, Crown or CV Joint or similar, however according to Audi, because the alloys were recently removed to be refurbished & painted, they assume that they never went back onto the same locations they came off from, therefore this is the reason the heavy juddering whilst turning.
Audi also spoke about the tread depth causing some of the problem. The Michelins currently have at least 3mm on them, so i have no idea what they are talking about... unless someone can educate me. New rubber ordered for Monday, so ill see if that makes the difference like they say.
Im getting the car back tomorrow, ill update on the Audi report and any further problems. In the meantime, anyone any suggestions, please let me know. Thanks.
01-10-2018, 08:06 PM
#2
Tire judder due to non Ackerman steering geometry and low profile tires with some tread wear. Worse in winter because tires are stiff and do not flex to compensate. Read up on “ackerman steering tire judder“
01-12-2018, 11:00 AM
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Many thanks for the reply. Whilst i understand the link you sent for the Ackerman Judder, the tyres are Michelins and i find it incredible that cold weather would, or can cause so much juddering.
New rubber is being fitted next week hoping this may sort the problem, but i still cannot believe quality rubber with decent tread causes so much juddering. I hope you are right, although i may switch to Continental or similar to see if that may help for the next cold spell.
New rubber is being fitted next week hoping this may sort the problem, but i still cannot believe quality rubber with decent tread causes so much juddering. I hope you are right, although i may switch to Continental or similar to see if that may help for the next cold spell.
01-12-2018, 01:16 PM
#4
Many thanks for the reply. Whilst i understand the link you sent for the Ackerman Judder, the tyres are Michelins and i find it incredible that cold weather would, or can cause so much juddering.
New rubber is being fitted next week hoping this may sort the problem, but i still cannot believe quality rubber with decent tread causes so much juddering. I hope you are right, although i may switch to Continental or similar to see if that may help for the next cold spell.
New rubber is being fitted next week hoping this may sort the problem, but i still cannot believe quality rubber with decent tread causes so much juddering. I hope you are right, although i may switch to Continental or similar to see if that may help for the next cold spell.
Tires don’t cause it. Suspension geometry that forces tires to side slip at sharp steering angles causes it. Shallow tread and cold temps and low profile stiff tires are just less flexible and thus they judder more violently when you turn sharply. My Cayman S did it with Michilens when they got worn but was better on new ones. My S5 did it a bit on worn Pirellis but does not do it noticeably on new Michilens. It likely will though when they wear.It is bothersome but it won’t hurt anything. Nature of the beast. Best wishes.
Last edited by J. Patterson; 01-12-2018 at 01:19 PM.
01-12-2018, 08:16 PM
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Okay, thanks for that. You have convinced me. I thought the Audi dealership was fobbing me off with a feeble excuse, but your explanation sounds plausible. Ill let you know how i get on with new tyres.
Thanks again.
Thanks again.
01-17-2018, 04:23 AM
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Just to let anyone who may be interested in this thread, i re-placed the two old tyres which were at 3.0mm exactly with 2 x brand new tyres. The massive juddering has completely disappeared. There is no vibration of any kind primarily by those tyres being replaced. The obvious question now is, does that mean whenever i get to 3.0mm, the juddering will return?
Obviously im relieved its only tyres and nothing as serious within the Quattro system.
Obviously im relieved its only tyres and nothing as serious within the Quattro system.
01-17-2018, 04:49 AM
#7
Just to let anyone who may be interested in this thread, i re-placed the two old tyres which were at 3.0mm exactly with 2 x brand new tyres. The massive juddering has completely disappeared. There is no vibration of any kind primarily by those tyres being replaced. The obvious question now is, does that mean whenever i get to 3.0mm, the juddering will return?
Obviously im relieved its only tyres and nothing as serious within the Quattro system.
Obviously im relieved its only tyres and nothing as serious within the Quattro system.
Good deal. Yes it will come back dependant on temperature and stiffness of whichever tires you are running. Only a suspension redesign that adhered more closely to Ackerman principals keeping both front wheels accurately tracing the radius of the turn could eliminate it.( 18 or 19 inch wheels with more sidewall to flex would help too) There are reasons to design a suspension where both front wheels stay parallel rather than the inner one turning at a sharper angle in order to follow the inner radius but I would be of the opinion that on an SUV that this is not advisable despite Audi having done it this way. Racing cars that run at high g loads and slip angles- yes. Passenger vehicles that prioritize comfort— no. At least you know what it is now. Think of it as a time to replace tires indicator ;-)
Last edited by J. Patterson; 01-17-2018 at 04:56 AM.
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01-23-2018, 11:23 AM
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I experienced the same thing on my '17 SQ5. Dealer diagnosed slightly different tread wear depth between the front 2 tirs. they measured and rotated tires so closest matching tires are up front. they noted it is otherwise close to needing new rubber anyway....actually feels worse than tire judder to me - felt like it was in the front differential....
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