Q5 aftermarket battery options?
07-14-2017, 01:59 PM
#11
AudiWorld Super User
Just so everyone that reads this post is on the same page, most aftermarket batteries that are not European made and labeled do not have the proper Audi coding information on the label.
07-15-2017, 12:00 PM
#13
AudiWorld Super User
Incidentally, JCI bought out the US rights to Bosch and Varta a couple of years ago. They make a lot of brands (or labels(G) so anyplace that can sell you an Optima battery (another JCI brand) should be able to get you a gen-you-whine Bosch OEM replacement, which will be made by JCI in the USA.
There are also $5-10 gizmos that plug into the cigarette lighter socket and use a 9V battery to keep a car's computer memory alive during battery changes. This might work on Audi, obviously the "ignition" has to be on to allow that.
There are also $5-10 gizmos that plug into the cigarette lighter socket and use a 9V battery to keep a car's computer memory alive during battery changes. This might work on Audi, obviously the "ignition" has to be on to allow that.
07-15-2017, 01:05 PM
#14
AudiWorld Senior Member
Incidentally, JCI bought out the US rights to Bosch and Varta a couple of years ago. They make a lot of brands (or labels(G) so anyplace that can sell you an Optima battery (another JCI brand) should be able to get you a gen-you-whine Bosch OEM replacement, which will be made by JCI in the USA.
There are also $5-10 gizmos that plug into the cigarette lighter socket and use a 9V battery to keep a car's computer memory alive during battery changes. This might work on Audi, obviously the "ignition" has to be on to allow that.
There are also $5-10 gizmos that plug into the cigarette lighter socket and use a 9V battery to keep a car's computer memory alive during battery changes. This might work on Audi, obviously the "ignition" has to be on to allow that.
07-15-2017, 03:23 PM
#15
AudiWorld Super User
Incidentally, JCI bought out the US rights to Bosch and Varta a couple of years ago. They make a lot of brands (or labels(G) so anyplace that can sell you an Optima battery (another JCI brand) should be able to get you a gen-you-whine Bosch OEM replacement, which will be made by JCI in the USA.
There are also $5-10 gizmos that plug into the cigarette lighter socket and use a 9V battery to keep a car's computer memory alive during battery changes. This might work on Audi, obviously the "ignition" has to be on to allow that.
There are also $5-10 gizmos that plug into the cigarette lighter socket and use a 9V battery to keep a car's computer memory alive during battery changes. This might work on Audi, obviously the "ignition" has to be on to allow that.
Just a comment here this 12V memory saver device will save a lot of Audi/ECU settings, but it has nothing to do with coding a new battery replacement to allow the power management system to work correctly. You need a VCDS or dealer to do it.
Yes, most batteries in the US, including Sears, Walmart, Advance Auto, Auto Zone, Pepboys, etc., are made by Johnson Controls, except Interstate and Delco.
07-15-2017, 05:10 PM
#16
AudiWorld Super User
The ODB2 port is a better way to go, just may not be as common.
The problem with using a 'keep alive" gizmo is that so many cars are using complex charge management controllers with largely undocumented functions. If you connect a voltmeter in a Q5, whether it is in the cig lighter or at the battery doesn't matter. You may see the system voltage ranging from 12.6 to 14.4 during a day's drive, with no obvious relation to which systems are turned on, or what speed you are running at, or how long you've been on the road. I've done this and frankly, after being used to old cars where it just said "14.4" all day and dropped maybe to "13.8" when idling or heavy loads were on...The logic Audi is using has me baffled. It makes me suspect that the controller is actually reading the battery state of charge as well as the system loads, and allowing the battery to intentionally float rather than stay at max voltage. Without debating the esoterics of charging systems, there ARE systems that get more complex than that, usually on larger systems. But hey, this is Audi.
It is indeed *possible* that the charge controller is quietly saying to itself "OK, I can never exceed a charge voltage of ### because this battery will only be overcharged by it" and like an odometer, only running the numbers one-way until it is reset. I asked some SEALs to grab a few Audi engineers for me, so I could force the hostages to talk, but they said no, Merkel gets upset about stuff like that. What can you do.
AFAIK Deka/East Penn, Exide, and JCI are the three biggest US battery makers. But even when a chain store contracts with one of them, the chain may contract with more than one source, because shipping a battery from Texas or Pennsylvania for three thousand miles just costs too much. Splitting national chains into geographic areas saves them gobs of money. And really, if they put out the same purchase specs? It doesn't matter who builds it, as long as they meet those specs. Special cases like Odyssey (TPPL) and Concorde/Lifeline (aviation spec AGM) are only going to come from one source, but that's hardly mass market.
The problem with using a 'keep alive" gizmo is that so many cars are using complex charge management controllers with largely undocumented functions. If you connect a voltmeter in a Q5, whether it is in the cig lighter or at the battery doesn't matter. You may see the system voltage ranging from 12.6 to 14.4 during a day's drive, with no obvious relation to which systems are turned on, or what speed you are running at, or how long you've been on the road. I've done this and frankly, after being used to old cars where it just said "14.4" all day and dropped maybe to "13.8" when idling or heavy loads were on...The logic Audi is using has me baffled. It makes me suspect that the controller is actually reading the battery state of charge as well as the system loads, and allowing the battery to intentionally float rather than stay at max voltage. Without debating the esoterics of charging systems, there ARE systems that get more complex than that, usually on larger systems. But hey, this is Audi.
It is indeed *possible* that the charge controller is quietly saying to itself "OK, I can never exceed a charge voltage of ### because this battery will only be overcharged by it" and like an odometer, only running the numbers one-way until it is reset. I asked some SEALs to grab a few Audi engineers for me, so I could force the hostages to talk, but they said no, Merkel gets upset about stuff like that. What can you do.
AFAIK Deka/East Penn, Exide, and JCI are the three biggest US battery makers. But even when a chain store contracts with one of them, the chain may contract with more than one source, because shipping a battery from Texas or Pennsylvania for three thousand miles just costs too much. Splitting national chains into geographic areas saves them gobs of money. And really, if they put out the same purchase specs? It doesn't matter who builds it, as long as they meet those specs. Special cases like Odyssey (TPPL) and Concorde/Lifeline (aviation spec AGM) are only going to come from one source, but that's hardly mass market.
07-15-2017, 08:43 PM
#17
AudiWorld Super User
The ODB2 port is a better way to go, just may not be as common.
The problem with using a 'keep alive" gizmo is that so many cars are using complex charge management controllers with largely undocumented functions. If you connect a voltmeter in a Q5, whether it is in the cig lighter or at the battery doesn't matter. You may see the system voltage ranging from 12.6 to 14.4 during a day's drive, with no obvious relation to which systems are turned on, or what speed you are running at, or how long you've been on the road. I've done this and frankly, after being used to old cars where it just said "14.4" all day and dropped maybe to "13.8" when idling or heavy loads were on...The logic Audi is using has me baffled. It makes me suspect that the controller is actually reading the battery state of charge as well as the system loads, and allowing the battery to intentionally float rather than stay at max voltage. Without debating the esoterics of charging systems, there ARE systems that get more complex than that, usually on larger systems. But hey, this is Audi.
It is indeed *possible* that the charge controller is quietly saying to itself "OK, I can never exceed a charge voltage of ### because this battery will only be overcharged by it" and like an odometer, only running the numbers one-way until it is reset. I asked some SEALs to grab a few Audi engineers for me, so I could force the hostages to talk, but they said no, Merkel gets upset about stuff like that. What can you do.
AFAIK Deka/East Penn, Exide, and JCI are the three biggest US battery makers. But even when a chain store contracts with one of them, the chain may contract with more than one source, because shipping a battery from Texas or Pennsylvania for three thousand miles just costs too much. Splitting national chains into geographic areas saves them gobs of money. And really, if they put out the same purchase specs? It doesn't matter who builds it, as long as they meet those specs. Special cases like Odyssey (TPPL) and Concorde/Lifeline (aviation spec AGM) are only going to come from one source, but that's hardly mass market.
The problem with using a 'keep alive" gizmo is that so many cars are using complex charge management controllers with largely undocumented functions. If you connect a voltmeter in a Q5, whether it is in the cig lighter or at the battery doesn't matter. You may see the system voltage ranging from 12.6 to 14.4 during a day's drive, with no obvious relation to which systems are turned on, or what speed you are running at, or how long you've been on the road. I've done this and frankly, after being used to old cars where it just said "14.4" all day and dropped maybe to "13.8" when idling or heavy loads were on...The logic Audi is using has me baffled. It makes me suspect that the controller is actually reading the battery state of charge as well as the system loads, and allowing the battery to intentionally float rather than stay at max voltage. Without debating the esoterics of charging systems, there ARE systems that get more complex than that, usually on larger systems. But hey, this is Audi.
It is indeed *possible* that the charge controller is quietly saying to itself "OK, I can never exceed a charge voltage of ### because this battery will only be overcharged by it" and like an odometer, only running the numbers one-way until it is reset. I asked some SEALs to grab a few Audi engineers for me, so I could force the hostages to talk, but they said no, Merkel gets upset about stuff like that. What can you do.
AFAIK Deka/East Penn, Exide, and JCI are the three biggest US battery makers. But even when a chain store contracts with one of them, the chain may contract with more than one source, because shipping a battery from Texas or Pennsylvania for three thousand miles just costs too much. Splitting national chains into geographic areas saves them gobs of money. And really, if they put out the same purchase specs? It doesn't matter who builds it, as long as they meet those specs. Special cases like Odyssey (TPPL) and Concorde/Lifeline (aviation spec AGM) are only going to come from one source, but that's hardly mass market.
Yes, the the variable charging voltage is done to not over charge the battery to some extent. The main reason for the variable charge voltage is to reduce the alternator load on the engine to reduce fuel consumption. Most modern vehicles do this.
07-16-2017, 10:26 AM
#18
AudiWorld Super User
Variable alternator output for better mpg? That's interesting, and even logical. Once the computer power is cheap enough so that this kind of housekeeping can be run without impacting anything else, I guess that makes sense. But even the 1970's Delcotron's had that much sense. They always put out 14.3-14.4 volts, they simply changed their output pulse rate in a range from something like 100Hz to 10,000Hz, just tickling the battery constantly to keep a full charge on it. Swinging the entire system voltage over a much wider range...almost sounds like some engineer took up a dare. Or a double-dare.
I suppose there must be something somewhere that goes into these things, but modern charging logic somehow isn't on the Times Best Seller list. Or at the corner coffee & book store.(G)
I suppose there must be something somewhere that goes into these things, but modern charging logic somehow isn't on the Times Best Seller list. Or at the corner coffee & book store.(G)
07-16-2017, 12:28 PM
#19
AudiWorld Super User
Variable alternator output for better mpg? That's interesting, and even logical. Once the computer power is cheap enough so that this kind of housekeeping can be run without impacting anything else, I guess that makes sense. But even the 1970's Delcotron's had that much sense. They always put out 14.3-14.4 volts, they simply changed their output pulse rate in a range from something like 100Hz to 10,000Hz, just tickling the battery constantly to keep a full charge on it. Swinging the entire system voltage over a much wider range...almost sounds like some engineer took up a dare. Or a double-dare.
I suppose there must be something somewhere that goes into these things, but modern charging logic somehow isn't on the Times Best Seller list. Or at the corner coffee & book store.(G)
I suppose there must be something somewhere that goes into these things, but modern charging logic somehow isn't on the Times Best Seller list. Or at the corner coffee & book store.(G)
Here is one of many examples where Audi does it........
Alternator control dynamics
(drive load response)
When the heated rear window is switched on, the
alternator voltage is not increased immediately,
but rather adjusted within 3, 6 or 9 s as a function
of engine speed and temperature. This
continuous, infinitely variable regulation of the
alternator torque results in uniform engine
loading.
I also read where they are now switching the alternator off under heavy acceleration, only using the battery to supply the electrical load, to improve acceleration performance by not mechanically loading down the engine.
Just more gizmos and modules to fail later in life.
