Q5 retrofit
04-27-2017, 02:00 PM
#11
AudiWorld Senior Member
Grey-
When I went in for the auxiliary heater self-destruct prevention recall, I happened to walk in front of the car while the service writer was circling it. And saw the headlight covers were fogged and pitted. I thought on the outside, but when I took a hand to wipe one of them, I saw it was on the inside. So I called over the service writer and said "That's not right." And they said don't worry about, they would warranty it (charge it off under warranty) the only question was whether they had the parts in stock--which it happened that they did. Both assemblies replaced same day, no charge, no argument.
I found out recently the dealer is one of Audi's "elite" group, i.e. they've received formal recognition for making a lot of customers very happy. I'd say that if your dealer hasn't been able to do that, see if there's an elite dealer in your area, whatever the right word is for them. (Do I remember? Nope.)
When I went in for the auxiliary heater self-destruct prevention recall, I happened to walk in front of the car while the service writer was circling it. And saw the headlight covers were fogged and pitted. I thought on the outside, but when I took a hand to wipe one of them, I saw it was on the inside. So I called over the service writer and said "That's not right." And they said don't worry about, they would warranty it (charge it off under warranty) the only question was whether they had the parts in stock--which it happened that they did. Both assemblies replaced same day, no charge, no argument.
I found out recently the dealer is one of Audi's "elite" group, i.e. they've received formal recognition for making a lot of customers very happy. I'd say that if your dealer hasn't been able to do that, see if there's an elite dealer in your area, whatever the right word is for them. (Do I remember? Nope.)
What was the timing for when the lights were replaced? Dealer here says it is a cosmetic defect that had to be noted within the first 12mo/15k miles. I think it is BS and they just don't want to do it.
Grey
04-27-2017, 02:25 PM
#12
AudiWorld Super User
No, this was in the third year. If he thinks that extensive pitting and structural degradation of the DOT-regulated lighting system is cosmetic—not structural and essential safety equipment—then maybe he needs to be asked 1) Why other dealers have no problem doing this in the THIRD YEAR and more importantly, 2- If you add your name to the complaints on file with the NHTSA and it results in a mandated recall of all affected vehicles, does he think Audi will love him MORE or LESS than if they just fix the damned light covers?
And you might remind him, that a number of anonymous uncredible alleged Audi owners have echoed the same complaints on this forum--AND which dealers have had no problem getting approval from AoA to simply fix them, by replacing both headlight covers. (Something like $1500 EACH.)
It is NOT cosmetic. It is a degraded optical and structural component. It is a material safety defect. It is an engineering and manufacturing defect as well.
“Just call AoA, and tell them you’re trying to prevent an NHTSA complaint and a massive recall.”
If he still says no, poke out his eyes and remind him that’s just a cosmetic issue.(G)
And you might remind him, that a number of anonymous uncredible alleged Audi owners have echoed the same complaints on this forum--AND which dealers have had no problem getting approval from AoA to simply fix them, by replacing both headlight covers. (Something like $1500 EACH.)
It is NOT cosmetic. It is a degraded optical and structural component. It is a material safety defect. It is an engineering and manufacturing defect as well.
“Just call AoA, and tell them you’re trying to prevent an NHTSA complaint and a massive recall.”
If he still says no, poke out his eyes and remind him that’s just a cosmetic issue.(G)
Last edited by Redd; 04-28-2017 at 04:12 AM. Reason: typos
04-27-2017, 03:16 PM
#13
AudiWorld Senior Member
Originally Posted by Redd
No, this was in the third year. If he thinks that extensive pitting and structural degradarion of the DOT-regulated lighting system is cosmetic—not structural and essential safety equipment—then maybe he needs to be asked 1) Why other dealers have no problem doing this is the THIRD YEAR and more importantly, 2- If you add your name to the complaints on file with the NHTSA and it results in a mandated recall of all affected vehicles, does he think Audi will love him MORE or LESS than if they just fix the damned light covers?
And you might remind him, that a number of anonymous uncredible alleged Audi owners have echoed the same complaints on this forum--AND which dealers have had no problem getting approval from AoA to simply fix them, by replacing both headlight covers. (Something like $1500 EACH.)
It is NOT cosmetic. It is a degraded optical and structural component. It is a material safety defect. It is an engineering and manufacturing defect as well.
“Just call AoA, and tell them you’re trying to prevent an NHTSA complaint and a massive recall.”
If he still says no, poke out his eyes and remind him that’s just a cosmetic issue.(G)
And you might remind him, that a number of anonymous uncredible alleged Audi owners have echoed the same complaints on this forum--AND which dealers have had no problem getting approval from AoA to simply fix them, by replacing both headlight covers. (Something like $1500 EACH.)
It is NOT cosmetic. It is a degraded optical and structural component. It is a material safety defect. It is an engineering and manufacturing defect as well.
“Just call AoA, and tell them you’re trying to prevent an NHTSA complaint and a massive recall.”
If he still says no, poke out his eyes and remind him that’s just a cosmetic issue.(G)
Did it look anything like this?
https://www.audiworld.com/forums/sho...1#post24782921
Grey
04-27-2017, 11:21 PM
#14
AudiWorld Super User
Does the phrase 'twins separated since birth' sound familiar?
When you think about it, most plastics are fairly stable. Most acrylics and polycarbonates (don't now which exactly Audi uses) are damned stable. Except, they are all well documented to be susceptible to impacts. Which can't happen inside your headlights, unless there are spiders throwing rocks in there. And they are susceptible to crazing and hazing from petrochemical and ammonia exposure. But again, the spiders rarely use waxes or cleaners in there. And they are also susceptible to UV degradation. Very susceptible to it. And funny thing, I'm guessing a plasma discharge like a bi-xenon lamp six inches away puts out a lot of UV and heat. Just a guess, not an engineer.
But there's no way in hell that *just* the inside of the plastic would show extensive degradation, if there wasn't something in there degrading it.
A common scenario is that a lighting designer designs the lamps and then specifies "a suitable enclosure" which another designer says "Oh, let's build them out of SuperResin, that's worked well for us before" and then either an accountant says "You're nuts, that stuff is too expensive, we can get SuperCheapResin for half the price" and then...three or four years down the line, the cheap stuff fails and everyone says "Not my fault" because no one oversaw the entire assembly.
Or, the resin company simply had a bad batch of resin. Or the supplier cheated and substituted resins.
No matter how you slice it, a very common case of engineering or design failure. In the US there are laws like the Uniform Commercial Code that specify how warranties may be worded, and what has to be said to exclude concealed or latent defects, such as manufacturing defects. That may not apply here, but then there's Magnusson-Moss and a couple of others that AoA's legal department certainly are familiar with, even if they claim otherwise. I guess the only question is, does your written warranty exclude the headlight assemblies? And why isn't your dealer pursuing elite status?(G)
When you think about it, most plastics are fairly stable. Most acrylics and polycarbonates (don't now which exactly Audi uses) are damned stable. Except, they are all well documented to be susceptible to impacts. Which can't happen inside your headlights, unless there are spiders throwing rocks in there. And they are susceptible to crazing and hazing from petrochemical and ammonia exposure. But again, the spiders rarely use waxes or cleaners in there. And they are also susceptible to UV degradation. Very susceptible to it. And funny thing, I'm guessing a plasma discharge like a bi-xenon lamp six inches away puts out a lot of UV and heat. Just a guess, not an engineer.
But there's no way in hell that *just* the inside of the plastic would show extensive degradation, if there wasn't something in there degrading it.
A common scenario is that a lighting designer designs the lamps and then specifies "a suitable enclosure" which another designer says "Oh, let's build them out of SuperResin, that's worked well for us before" and then either an accountant says "You're nuts, that stuff is too expensive, we can get SuperCheapResin for half the price" and then...three or four years down the line, the cheap stuff fails and everyone says "Not my fault" because no one oversaw the entire assembly.
Or, the resin company simply had a bad batch of resin. Or the supplier cheated and substituted resins.
No matter how you slice it, a very common case of engineering or design failure. In the US there are laws like the Uniform Commercial Code that specify how warranties may be worded, and what has to be said to exclude concealed or latent defects, such as manufacturing defects. That may not apply here, but then there's Magnusson-Moss and a couple of others that AoA's legal department certainly are familiar with, even if they claim otherwise. I guess the only question is, does your written warranty exclude the headlight assemblies? And why isn't your dealer pursuing elite status?(G)
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