2018 Q5 Engine Failure
09-09-2018, 10:00 AM
#21
AudiWorld Senior Member
[QUOTE=JonnyRotten;25207928 I trust the assembly line process more than the Audi techs.[/QUOTE]
I used to think this way as well...until I actually worked in the industry in service for a while. While it is true the assembly line process is likely excellent, consider that a repair at the dealership could be an equally (if not more) quality job. Consider the way assembly line workers do a repetitive, monontinous process all day long month after month....seems likely they "zone out" and make a mistake every once in a while. Given that a master technician doesn't perform engine replacement daily, they are extra careful to double-check their work and going over everything with a fine tooth comb (likely more so than the assembly line worker).
Remember, a technician has his reputation on the line if he does a poor job here, and he is paid on that reputation. A repair like this is done by a master tech, someone with immense skill, training and likely decades of experience. It kind of is a slap in the face to automatically discount the ability of the tech to not be as good as a factory worker. I know many techs that take great pride in their work, and they would gladly go head-to-head with a factory worker on their skill level and quality work. It also seems pretty arrogant to only be satisfied with a new car...Audi warranty doesn't promise to let you decide who is worthy of fixing your car, a dealership master tech or a factory assembly worker.
Just offering a different perspective based on first hand experience that find few have ever taken he time consider. The 2 technicians that perform most of the work at the dealership I went to had each worked 40 years exclusively at one store for one brand, and I'd trust their engine replacement skills any day of the week. Quality workmanship from a dealership certainly varies, and the opportunity exists for a poor job exists. But to simply write off the inability to have you car properly and acceptably repaired at a dealership seems a little over-the-top-demaning and snooty at first glance (in my opinion).
I used to think this way as well...until I actually worked in the industry in service for a while. While it is true the assembly line process is likely excellent, consider that a repair at the dealership could be an equally (if not more) quality job. Consider the way assembly line workers do a repetitive, monontinous process all day long month after month....seems likely they "zone out" and make a mistake every once in a while. Given that a master technician doesn't perform engine replacement daily, they are extra careful to double-check their work and going over everything with a fine tooth comb (likely more so than the assembly line worker).
Remember, a technician has his reputation on the line if he does a poor job here, and he is paid on that reputation. A repair like this is done by a master tech, someone with immense skill, training and likely decades of experience. It kind of is a slap in the face to automatically discount the ability of the tech to not be as good as a factory worker. I know many techs that take great pride in their work, and they would gladly go head-to-head with a factory worker on their skill level and quality work. It also seems pretty arrogant to only be satisfied with a new car...Audi warranty doesn't promise to let you decide who is worthy of fixing your car, a dealership master tech or a factory assembly worker.
Just offering a different perspective based on first hand experience that find few have ever taken he time consider. The 2 technicians that perform most of the work at the dealership I went to had each worked 40 years exclusively at one store for one brand, and I'd trust their engine replacement skills any day of the week. Quality workmanship from a dealership certainly varies, and the opportunity exists for a poor job exists. But to simply write off the inability to have you car properly and acceptably repaired at a dealership seems a little over-the-top-demaning and snooty at first glance (in my opinion).
09-09-2018, 10:07 AM
#22
AudiWorld Senior Member
I used to think this way as well...until I actually worked in the industry in service for a while. While it is true the assembly line process is likely excellent, consider that a repair at the dealership could be an equally (if not more) quality job. Consider the way assembly line workers do a repetitive, monontinous process all day long month after month....seems likely they "zone out" and make a mistake every once in a while. Given that a master technician doesn't perform engine replacement daily, they are extra careful to double-check their work and going over everything with a fine tooth comb (likely more so than the assembly line worker).
Remember, a technician has his reputation on the line if he does a poor job here, and he is paid on that reputation. A repair like this is done by a master tech, someone with immense skill, training and likely decades of experience. It kind of is a slap in the face to automatically discount the ability of the tech to not be as good as a factory worker. I know many techs that take great pride in their work, and they would gladly go head-to-head with a factory worker on their skill level and quality work. It also seems pretty arrogant to only be satisfied with a new car...Audi warranty doesn't promise to let you decide who is worthy of fixing your car, a dealership master tech or a factory assembly worker.
Just offering a different perspective based on first hand experience that find few have ever taken he time consider. The 2 technicians that perform most of the work at the dealership I went to had each worked 40 years exclusively at one store for one brand, and I'd trust their engine replacement skills any day of the week. Quality workmanship from a dealership certainly varies, and the opportunity exists for a poor job exists. But to simply write off the inability to have you car properly and acceptably repaired at a dealership seems a little over-the-top-demaning and snooty at first glance (in my opinion).
Remember, a technician has his reputation on the line if he does a poor job here, and he is paid on that reputation. A repair like this is done by a master tech, someone with immense skill, training and likely decades of experience. It kind of is a slap in the face to automatically discount the ability of the tech to not be as good as a factory worker. I know many techs that take great pride in their work, and they would gladly go head-to-head with a factory worker on their skill level and quality work. It also seems pretty arrogant to only be satisfied with a new car...Audi warranty doesn't promise to let you decide who is worthy of fixing your car, a dealership master tech or a factory assembly worker.
Just offering a different perspective based on first hand experience that find few have ever taken he time consider. The 2 technicians that perform most of the work at the dealership I went to had each worked 40 years exclusively at one store for one brand, and I'd trust their engine replacement skills any day of the week. Quality workmanship from a dealership certainly varies, and the opportunity exists for a poor job exists. But to simply write off the inability to have you car properly and acceptably repaired at a dealership seems a little over-the-top-demaning and snooty at first glance (in my opinion).
it all depends on who you get, if this is a newer car 3-4 years old i would only trust the manufacturing as to what technician has knowledge on how to perform the repair especially on the same model year . Books and old knowledge only goes as far, not to mention how many technicians dealers would perform a engine rebuild/reinstall. unless its a big dealer with plenty of customers chances are that 90% of technician wount see anything other then normal maintenance work nothing more.
as i agree standard technical has more technical knowledge then any "line worker" i would trust a line worked more. most cars parts including our super cars are made by people with no technical training or knowledge they just place parts in place they are told to how they are told to. visit any manufacturing and talk to them you will see. Had a chance to see Bentley, BMW, MB, and Honda manufacturing including engine manufacturing for the NSX
Last edited by KaDeTime; 09-09-2018 at 10:12 AM.
09-09-2018, 10:14 AM
#23
AudiWorld Senior Member
While it is true you car could be assigned to a novice tech, this is not in the best interest for the brand, the dealership or the customer....hence why dealerships have in place competent techs that can easily handle and engine swap. To be honest, replacing an engine is really not that difficult, far less involved than actually replacing an individual piston (as an example). I think people not in the industry try to overcomplicate many repair processes. This is not brain surgery, but a series of nuts, bolts and wires. I personally have had an engine replacement on a car under warranty done at the dealerships....100,000 miles later and never a problem.
I'm just trying to encourage people to view this from a different perspective, as there are some very opinionated people on a topic they really have no first-hand experience with.
09-09-2018, 10:19 AM
#24
AudiWorld Super User
Were the two failures for the regular Q5 with the 2.0T, or for the SQ5 with the new 3.0T?
09-09-2018, 10:21 AM
#25
AudiWorld Super User
I know this sucks guys, engine failure is a major bummer on a brand new ride. I truly hope Audi replaces your entire vehicle because no one wants a brand new car that was rebuilt in the shop after a few hundred or thousand miles.
That said, this does happen, one small imperfection on a key part like a piston ring, cylinder liner or oil/water galleries and the engine pops. VAG has been improving their 2.0L 4Cyl Turbo engine for 20 years now and it is very solid. These cases just sound like those random one-off defects that do happen.
That said, this does happen, one small imperfection on a key part like a piston ring, cylinder liner or oil/water galleries and the engine pops. VAG has been improving their 2.0L 4Cyl Turbo engine for 20 years now and it is very solid. These cases just sound like those random one-off defects that do happen.
09-09-2018, 12:15 PM
#26
AudiWorld Member
it all depends on who you get, if this is a newer car 3-4 years old i would only trust the manufacturing as to what technician has knowledge on how to perform the repair especially on the same model year . Books and old knowledge only goes as far, not to mention how many technicians dealers would perform a engine rebuild/reinstall. unless its a big dealer with plenty of customers chances are that 90% of technician wount see anything other then normal maintenance work nothing more.
as i agree standard technical has more technical knowledge then any "line worker" i would trust a line worked more. most cars parts including our super cars are made by people with no technical training or knowledge they just place parts in place they are told to how they are told to. visit any manufacturing and talk to them you will see. Had a chance to see Bentley, BMW, MB, and Honda manufacturing including engine manufacturing for the NSX
as i agree standard technical has more technical knowledge then any "line worker" i would trust a line worked more. most cars parts including our super cars are made by people with no technical training or knowledge they just place parts in place they are told to how they are told to. visit any manufacturing and talk to them you will see. Had a chance to see Bentley, BMW, MB, and Honda manufacturing including engine manufacturing for the NSX
I've had personal experience with big repairs on my Audi and I had to go back three times to have the repair done correctly.
Some of the mechanics don't really care about what they are doing as I feel that they should. If little things break while the repair is happening they just leave it because nobody will know and that's not right.
I'd trust what came from the factory in this case because the chances of everything being just as it should be are much more likely with the assembly line IMO.
Now I'm not saying that there's no such thing as a mechanic out there that can perform the repairs perfectly fine, but in this day and age those guys are becoming harder to find.
09-09-2018, 04:17 PM
#27
AudiWorld Senior Member
Again, this is a misconception many have about what actually goes on in the shop. Most premium stores have premium techs, and at least 1 has years of experience with engine replacements. Engines have to get pulled for many repairs, such as a rear main engine seal that is a common repair on nearly all brands.
While it is true you car could be assigned to a novice tech, this is not in the best interest for the brand, the dealership or the customer....hence why dealerships have in place competent techs that can easily handle and engine swap. To be honest, replacing an engine is really not that difficult, far less involved than actually replacing an individual piston (as an example). I think people not in the industry try to overcomplicate many repair processes. This is not brain surgery, but a series of nuts, bolts and wires. I personally have had an engine replacement on a car under warranty done at the dealerships....100,000 miles later and never a problem.
I'm just trying to encourage people to view this from a different perspective, as there are some very opinionated people on a topic they really have no first-hand experience with.
While it is true you car could be assigned to a novice tech, this is not in the best interest for the brand, the dealership or the customer....hence why dealerships have in place competent techs that can easily handle and engine swap. To be honest, replacing an engine is really not that difficult, far less involved than actually replacing an individual piston (as an example). I think people not in the industry try to overcomplicate many repair processes. This is not brain surgery, but a series of nuts, bolts and wires. I personally have had an engine replacement on a car under warranty done at the dealerships....100,000 miles later and never a problem.
I'm just trying to encourage people to view this from a different perspective, as there are some very opinionated people on a topic they really have no first-hand experience with.
tell me me how many B9 2017/2018 SQ5 had their engine replaced or rebuilt in a NA dealer?
The place it self is not suitable for most repairs as the air quality is not controlled nor the equipment to measure and test is not on hand. Small dealer that has few service bays will not invest in the propert equipment just in case 1 time in 5 years an engine will need to be replaced nor will the technician has the knowledge and practice or the environment to preform a repair to a standard or a manufacturing facility.
As for expirance on the subject, you have no idea what my or people that comment on this forum experience is so I would not jump to conclusions so quickly. Everyone is intimidated to their opinion if this was my car no technican would be replaceing a engine at a dealer for a brand new car unless they provide extended warranty and reduction in value check to me first. Good luck selling the car at standard value with a replacement of en engine
09-09-2018, 04:22 PM
#28
AudiWorld Super User
tell me me how many B9 2017/2018 SQ5 had their engine replaced or rebuilt in a NA dealer?
The place it self is not suitable for most repairs as the air quality is not controlled nor the equipment to measure and test is not on hand. Small dealer that has few service bays will not invest in the propert equipment just in case 1 time in 5 years an engine will need to be replaced nor will the technician has the knowledge and practice or the environment to preform a repair to a standard or a manufacturing facility.
As for expirance on the subject, you have no idea what my or people that comment on this forum experience is so I would not jump to conclusions so quickly. Everyone is intimidated to their opinion if this was my car no technican would be replaceing a engine at a dealer for a brand new car unless they provide extended warranty and reduction in value check to me first. Good luck selling the car at standard value with a replacement of en engine
Techs are bolting on accessories and ancillaries and dropping the engine back in.
09-09-2018, 05:27 PM
#29
AudiWorld Senior Member
keep in mind I’m simply comparing two options and speaking to what I would prefer if I was in a situation like the OP not that an engine job can’t be successful completed at a dealer.
09-09-2018, 05:34 PM
#30
AudiWorld Super User
humidity is only one item I would be more concerned with dust and other debris from a brake or exhaust job in the bay next to you when you need to marge the engine with the transmission. Most likely when the car will be in pieces over night or days.
keep in mind I’m simply comparing two options and speaking to what I would prefer if I was in a situation like the OP not that an engine job can’t be successful completed at a dealer.
an engine is sealed where it mates to a transmission - the transmission is also sealed. Dust in the bell housing, a spider, or any other incidentals would not matter. It’s not like assembling an engine from a bare block (or a transmission, rear etc).
As I mentioned to the OP previously this is a very simple thing for the dealer to solve - they trade it in on a new one, and they deal with the warranty side of things.