gsobol

I found myself in exactly same situation, on the two lane road, on the left lane, when the car in front of me swerved to the right lane in order to avoid hitting a suddenly stopped car that decided to make an illegal u-turn between the highway dividers. While I took the time (split of a sec) to look and see that there was not enough room for me to swing to the right and before I had a chance to hit the brakes, the belts got tight, big red triangle showed up on the HUD, and the brakes engaged. Now, at that point I managed to get my foot on the pedal and shoved it harder so no idea if the car would stop before plowing into the back of the stopped car or not, but there was enough room for me to stop without engaging anti-lock brakes, and I didn't get rear ended which was my other concern. So it appears that the car can switch between ACC and PRE, and it appears that PRE has priority. Yes, the system is not fool proof, but what really is....

Corgiman

BigKutta

I drive without ACC at all times. Problem solved

sickk23

gsobol

Right, but at least in his situation there are no questions who was responsible for planting the front of the vehicle in someone else's trunk ....

AlbertQ7

This seems like a great example of pre-sense working exactly as it should. As you were processing the situation, it already initiated preparing for impact by pretensioning the seatbelts and it started braking much sooner than you were capable of. You then took over and completed the stop. Hard to know to questions: #1. Had presense not kicked in, would you have stopped in time? It certainly gave you the best chance of stopping before a collision. (Had there been an open lane to your right, as soon as you touched the gas, pre-sense braking would have stopped and you could have moved over and kept going.) Question #2: had you not stepped on the brake, would it have stopped you completely in time on it's own? IMHO, it shouldn't have to - it as an adaptive cruise control and driver ASSIST, not full self-driving.

BigKutta

Yeah, but I'm driving and in control and not thinking "will ACC stop me?". I'll just go ahead an stop or maneuver around. With ACC on, its potential reaction will also factor into my mind as the scenarios play out. Just saying....

markcincinnati

I ALWAYS drive with ACC engaged -- at over 13,000 miles I have experienced many different situations, a small number of them near misses as I learned the capabilities of the ACC system. I have had some situations where I have had to intervene, but I've had many many more situations where the RED TRIANGLE and/or ACC itself saved my butt or my bumpers and fenders from "bending" (or worse). Yes, the technology needs to be able to recognize a "stationary object" when it has not been previously locked on a moving object, but that is a very small minority of the time anyway. I believe level-three automation will be very helpful in this regard and Audi is pioneering/leading in that technology. So, yes ACC is not 100% able to "see" a stopped car you are overtaking. Yes, the Audi "senses" your car has (since you apparently have DAP) are imperfect, but overall they are a godsend in heavy Interstate traffic and in several other (but not EVERY) circumstances.

I would advise looking at the Youtube videos and reading the manual. Then I advise you to ALWAYS use ACC (I am not exactly speaking literally since there are situations, outlined in the manual, where ACC should not be used.)

There are parameters -- measured in seconds -- you can change and others measured in WORDs (I have mine set to MEDIUM, for instance) and/or "numbers" that allow you to set the distances (in feet) and times (in seconds) that your systems will react. This current system is Level Two Automation, it is "remarkable" but it is somewhat analogous to the early iterations of Windows (vs DOS): Level Two is [sic] "one step for your Audi and a Giant Leap for Auto-kind." I adopted Windows from the get-go, but it wasn't until 3.1 (or 3.11) that it really seemed like I could see the true potential. We're at a moment with DAP that is Windows 3, maybe 3.1, in other words, it still is better than not having DAP just as it would have been a pain to NOT use Windows, relying instead on DOS.

Overall, I'm a proponent of Audis DAP systems -- but I am adamant that you need to read the manual and watch the videos.

BigKutta

So for someone that uses the system all the time, what was your driving experience like before you used DAP and other safety features? Were you encountering these close calls and fender bender a lot when you were driving?
"I have experienced many different situations, a small number of them near misses.... I have had some situations where I have had to intervene, but I've had many many more situations where the RED TRIANGLE and/or ACC itself saved my butt ...."(without red triangle of course)

markcincinnati

There are two answers to this question, and then there's the "situational" (and "location-based") consideration(s) that will come into play.

To be clear, if my "name" isn't clear enough, my geography is SW Ohio (Cincinnati). I've lived in Cincinnati since the late 1970's. I've had (well my wife and I together have had) 33 Audis, 3 BMWs, 2 VWs, 1 Acura and 1 Infiniti since 1976. The only incident I've had over the course of these vehicles was in my Acura -- this was minor and would probably be called a minor fender-bender. This was in 2012. My wife had a parking lot incident in the late 1990s and my 2018 S4 was "bumped into" recently while I was NOT in the car and my car was in the parking lot of a PetSmart (I did have to pay for the cracked bumper on my car -- $1,800). The first answer, then, would be "virtually all of the situations I've experienced that might or could have turned into 'incidents' didn't." These possibly near incidents have increased in number correlated to the traffic density increases (and speed increases and an overall deterioration of our roads and Interstates AND the complete and total break down of lane discipline) that have continued unabated since 1976.

The second answer (which may or may not be relevant based on your location or even if you are rural or suburban or urban) deserves a bit more thought:

My early Audis, thankfully, all had seat and shoulder belts, but it took a while before I bought an Audi that came "standard" with ABS. Some time then passed before I was able to purchase (at extra cost) an Audi with what is now called ESC (on my first A6 with this tech, a 1991 model as I recall, it was called ESP and it was a $500 special order option). Time progressed and Audis came with or could be had with more and more technology: Brake assist, side assist, various park assists, cruise control assists (CC would both brake and accelerate), and so on. My 2018 S4 with DAP is the first one I have had with "all of the technologies" major auto insurers offer discounts for -- and, FWIW, the technologies Consumer Reports believes (as do I) will be mandatory and/or standard equipment SOON as we march toward more and more and better and better autonomy features.

When I got my 2018 and called my insurer to have it bound, they asked if my car had, "the senses" (Audi's names, but the insurer knew what I was talking about), ACC, lane keeping assist, even back-up camera, and hands-free, eyes-free in-car telephony, etc, etc. Every time I answered yes, the agent on the phone indicated the discount off of the policy that feature qualified me for. It seems to me, insurers believe these technologies/features will save THEM (not that they don't care about me, at least a tiny bit) money since these systems reduce what I have broadly called "incidents." Now, maybe living where I live these "DAP" systems work and perhaps where you live they have proven less effective. But, overall using these features regularly and frequently (where and when appropriate, which is in itself subject to one's location and experiences (and probably biases) in addition to other factors too voluminous to enter into a discussion about here).

My father drove his 1963 Chrysler Newport into a very old, very large, very healthy (strong) tree when he hit a patch of ice many decades ago. He was not wearing his seatbelt (he refused to). This 1963 auto was his first with seatbelts and although my mother and I would wear seatbelts he wouldn't saying, "I've never had any car with seatbelts in them previously, so I'm not about to change now." My dad was a math teacher, no dummy, well educated, a college graduate. As his head propelled itself toward the winshield he caught one of his nostrils on the (then) non-breakaway rear view mirror and it ripped his face off. Miraculously, he lived -- and, like the $6 million dollar man, they rebuilt him although he had a nasty scar from his nose through most of his scalp. The state highway patrolman said to us, "if he had been wearing his seatbelt (this was pre-shoulder belt days) he'd probably been shaken up and maybe had a sore breastbone" -- the sore chest would have been due to the lack (then) of airbags or even padded steering wheels. So the second answer to the question is -- admittedly -- biased by the data-point I've shared about my smart, educated, but apparently ignorant and some would say, to be kind, stubborn (and some would say, without concern for "kindness," stupid) father, who could've saved himself and his family from a lot of pain, trouble, and expense if only the technology would have been used to its fullest (of the time and in the place) at the moment.

Audi's ACC may or may not be the best (I'm using ACC as one example, you can pick any of the other technologies that -- today -- require you to engage or allow you to disengage them) on the market today. It's the first one I've owned and the third one I've driven, recently I had a 2018 Nissan Altima that had the similar tech that Audi sells as DAP -- it didn't seem as "smart" as the tech in my Audi. I could be wrong, since I only had the car four days while my new bumper was being put on my 2018 S4 (see PetSmart above). I used the tech in the Nissan and even it was better than my 2014 S4 which only had a backup camera, ESP, ABS, Brake Assist, and accelerator and brake CC.

The point is, these technologies have proven themselves to work -- no one, I hope, thinks they work perfectly or even all of the time. They work to such an extent that insurance companies incent "us" to get them. They work to such an extent that they are written about repeatedly in leading consumer magazines AND in every "enthusiast" magazine I subscribe to (Automobile, Car & Driver, Motor Trend, and Road & Track -- so far). The articles written are overwhelmingly positive, encouraging, and supportive of both the current state of these "autonomous" features and the features coming in the not too distant future.

There are, to be sure, pioneers, early adopters, mainstream adopters, late adopters, and those who only will adopt when they have no choice. I assume I am an early adopter since I'm convinced what Audi sells as an option (DAP) will be, VERY SOON, standard equipment across the lineup. Also, my 2017 purchase of an Audi S4 was literally the first time I could buy an S4 with these features. I guess such tech was available on the Tesla cars and perhaps even one-year earlier on Mercedes, but all things considered I'm an early adopter, I would judge. Having but not using ACC is, in my mind, analogous to my father having but not using his seat belt becuase "they didn't used to build them that way."

I remain, "Often wrong, but never uncertain."

Post Script: ESP, for instance, can be turned off and even defeated entirely (ABS used to be able to be defeated on my earliest Audis equipped with this feature). Would anyone turn it off (other than for launch control)? I'm talking about driving on public streets, roads, highways, and Interstates, to be clear. Would we defeat our backup cameras or NOT wear seatbelts, and so forth? I assume the answer is either no or hell no. Turning off the senses (if possible) and not using ACC (the vast majority of the time) has, for me, become another "hell no, I wouldn't turn it off" feature.