Who has converted '83 old style fuse box to newer style? Write ups?
03-24-2006, 05:33 AM
#2
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One of our members has done it... here is the link
<ul><li><a href="http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/w-t_audifans/message/3647">http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/w-t_audifans/message/3647</a</li></ul>
03-24-2006, 11:10 AM
#5
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I've done it, and posted a write here or on Audifans, no pics. Do check Huw Powell's website.
Mine conversion is pretty easy as my harnesses came from an RR ur quattro, but previous to getting the RR harnesses I made the harnesses from those from an '86 CGT (dash), '87.5 CGT (headlights, fans, A/C, rear harness), '87 4kq (console) and'91 200q (battery cable) that are very close to what you need. I wanted the ur q ABS and engine harnesses that are hard to make.
You can piece things together from a CGT (rear harnesses, power windows, engine sensor, etc.) and 4kqs (dash and console wiring), but you will still have some differences, especially in the radiator fan, instruments, engine interface (pulse relay, alternator and A/C location, hydraulic system warning wiring, etc.) and front lighting to deal with. It isn't a horrible job if you are familiar with the wiring diagrams. If you don't keep A/C it gets easier.
You can piece things together from a CGT (rear harnesses, power windows, engine sensor, etc.) and 4kqs (dash and console wiring), but you will still have some differences, especially in the radiator fan, instruments, engine interface (pulse relay, alternator and A/C location, hydraulic system warning wiring, etc.) and front lighting to deal with. It isn't a horrible job if you are familiar with the wiring diagrams. If you don't keep A/C it gets easier.
03-24-2006, 11:16 AM
#6
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I did find Huw's writeup, was looking for Ur-q specific differences. So I would need
a harness from a CGT also? Or could I get away w/ just a 4kq's harness?
Do you have a link to your Audifans writeup?<ul><li><a href="http://www.humanspeakers.com/audi/fusebox.htm">http://www.humanspeakers.com/audi/fusebox.htm</a</li></ul>
Do you have a link to your Audifans writeup?<ul><li><a href="http://www.humanspeakers.com/audi/fusebox.htm">http://www.humanspeakers.com/audi/fusebox.htm</a</li></ul>
03-24-2006, 11:35 AM
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I thought you were a member?? :)
From: "a_stickler" <a_stickler@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:08 pm
Subject: Re: [WT-Audifans] RE: Fusebox Upgrade a_stickler
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Haven't read everyone else's posts on this topic, but from my own
experience on my 1983 complete harness swap from a 1986 Coupe GT, I
can report the following:
1 day to remove the harness from the CGT - this goes pretty fast. The
only real challenge is getting everything strung through the firewall
holes without damaging any plugs. Remove the fusebox completely so
that you can see what the h..l you are doing. Put a tag on everything
when you remove it. Having a friend without greasy fingers writing
out the labels and tagging things up while you toil away is really
convenient.
2. Removal from the UrQ. Same as above labeling things is good here,
too, in case you need to cut plugs to window lifters and such.
3. Follow the 1985 Turbo Quattro diagram in Bentley - this is what
your car will be like after the new harness goes in. I made sure the
harness was exactly right before attempting to install it in the car.
If you want the AC to work, you need a low-pressure (evaporator-
mounted) and high-pressure switch (condensor-mounted). The CGT will
have this - whether or not these bits work is a different story...
4. You'll need to splice in your diff lock lights wires from the old
harness. Ditto if you want to maintain the multiple fan speed
capability on the rad fan. I didn't, I just plugged it in. Wipers
motor, and heater fan motor also need a bit of splicing to get it all
working right, unless you use the blower and wiper motor off the CGT.
The UrQ has smaller holes/grommets in the firewall for the harness. I
dremeled them to match the grommets/holes from the CGT firewall so
that I could use the same grommets. Since you will need to fit a few
extra wires/plugs through the grommets, I greased them up and stretch
them over a length of thinwall steel tubing, large enough to fit the
harness and plugs. That made it easier to fit things through - when I
had everything through I split the edge of the steel tube and bent it
open far enough to clear the harness.
5. Cut a hole for the fusebox - make a gasket with RTV. it's hard to
get to - I used a Dremel for most of it. You will need to cut the aux
relay panel brackets from the CGT and mount them in the same location
on the UrQ. I used self-tapping sheet metal screws and
gasketed/sealed the screw tips where they came out next to the new
fuse box (you'll see what I mean when you look at the CGT aux relay
panel). I also used grease on the harness grommets to pop them into
place - without that, it's easy to tear the grommet.
6. Time - heh, heh, heh - weeks of 2 hour or so stints. Uninterrupted
you might be more efficient... plan on keeping the car if you do the
swap - it's a labor of love. The CGT harness was in much nicer
shape, more flexible wire, etc. Well worth, but I plan to keep the
car.
7. You need a different fuel pump relay. It's the part number shown
in ETKA for the later UrQs.
If anyone wants more detail, shoot me an e-mail.
Alex
Date: Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:08 pm
Subject: Re: [WT-Audifans] RE: Fusebox Upgrade a_stickler
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Haven't read everyone else's posts on this topic, but from my own
experience on my 1983 complete harness swap from a 1986 Coupe GT, I
can report the following:
1 day to remove the harness from the CGT - this goes pretty fast. The
only real challenge is getting everything strung through the firewall
holes without damaging any plugs. Remove the fusebox completely so
that you can see what the h..l you are doing. Put a tag on everything
when you remove it. Having a friend without greasy fingers writing
out the labels and tagging things up while you toil away is really
convenient.
2. Removal from the UrQ. Same as above labeling things is good here,
too, in case you need to cut plugs to window lifters and such.
3. Follow the 1985 Turbo Quattro diagram in Bentley - this is what
your car will be like after the new harness goes in. I made sure the
harness was exactly right before attempting to install it in the car.
If you want the AC to work, you need a low-pressure (evaporator-
mounted) and high-pressure switch (condensor-mounted). The CGT will
have this - whether or not these bits work is a different story...
4. You'll need to splice in your diff lock lights wires from the old
harness. Ditto if you want to maintain the multiple fan speed
capability on the rad fan. I didn't, I just plugged it in. Wipers
motor, and heater fan motor also need a bit of splicing to get it all
working right, unless you use the blower and wiper motor off the CGT.
The UrQ has smaller holes/grommets in the firewall for the harness. I
dremeled them to match the grommets/holes from the CGT firewall so
that I could use the same grommets. Since you will need to fit a few
extra wires/plugs through the grommets, I greased them up and stretch
them over a length of thinwall steel tubing, large enough to fit the
harness and plugs. That made it easier to fit things through - when I
had everything through I split the edge of the steel tube and bent it
open far enough to clear the harness.
5. Cut a hole for the fusebox - make a gasket with RTV. it's hard to
get to - I used a Dremel for most of it. You will need to cut the aux
relay panel brackets from the CGT and mount them in the same location
on the UrQ. I used self-tapping sheet metal screws and
gasketed/sealed the screw tips where they came out next to the new
fuse box (you'll see what I mean when you look at the CGT aux relay
panel). I also used grease on the harness grommets to pop them into
place - without that, it's easy to tear the grommet.
6. Time - heh, heh, heh - weeks of 2 hour or so stints. Uninterrupted
you might be more efficient... plan on keeping the car if you do the
swap - it's a labor of love. The CGT harness was in much nicer
shape, more flexible wire, etc. Well worth, but I plan to keep the
car.
7. You need a different fuel pump relay. It's the part number shown
in ETKA for the later UrQs.
If anyone wants more detail, shoot me an e-mail.
Alex
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03-24-2006, 12:02 PM
#9
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Two ways to do it..
One is (as Huw's website deals with) to spice in JUST the fusebox to existing 'under dash' fusebox location.
Benifit of this way is it's 'quicker' to do. Downside is the car still has original everything else.
The other way to do the swap is swap out the whole harness.
But be aware: A lot of the devices at the end of the harness (power window motors come to mind) have different style connectors on the newer harness. So you end up possibly having to do something at each device. Probably splicing/changing the connector.
I'd think best to get the connectors from each 'device' that you'd be connecting to from the 'donor car', as you'd probably want to switch to the newer connectors. (They changed them for a reason, I'd think!)
Benifit: Much better designed harness and conenctors
Downside: Basically, you have to pull the whole interior/dash to get at all the wiring harness locations.
I think that this is the way Martin did his change
But it you are going to have the interior out anyway, and are thinking to change to the 'new style' dash, then this way is a great idea...!!! :-)
Benifit of this way is it's 'quicker' to do. Downside is the car still has original everything else.
The other way to do the swap is swap out the whole harness.
But be aware: A lot of the devices at the end of the harness (power window motors come to mind) have different style connectors on the newer harness. So you end up possibly having to do something at each device. Probably splicing/changing the connector.
I'd think best to get the connectors from each 'device' that you'd be connecting to from the 'donor car', as you'd probably want to switch to the newer connectors. (They changed them for a reason, I'd think!)
Benifit: Much better designed harness and conenctors
Downside: Basically, you have to pull the whole interior/dash to get at all the wiring harness locations.
I think that this is the way Martin did his change
But it you are going to have the interior out anyway, and are thinking to change to the 'new style' dash, then this way is a great idea...!!! :-)
03-24-2006, 06:01 PM
#10
AudiWorld Super User
It depends upon what you want to do.
Do you just want to swap fuse panels, or also replace the crappy wires themselves that are used on the ur quattro? If you do a search, I believe I mentioned the differences between the early and late wiring and harnesses. There was alot that changed, including the insulation type that was used. IMO, just splicing in the fusebox is not the way to go. There are many issues with the electrical system, not just the fusebox. The late cars were pretty well sorted out electrically, but the early cars definitely were not. I can't imagine that an electrical load analysis was done in the design of the early system.
The 4kq wiring has the wrong window harness, rear harness (different taillights, trunk connections, no rear wiper, etc.) and other little issues. Also, the radiator fan and other under the hood wiring is very different. All you really need from a 4kq is the console wiring. BTW, I am assuming that you are also changing to the later style dash.
If you compare the late ur quattro wiring with CGTs or 4kq, you will see that there is no direct replacement. Any way you look at it you will have to do some work if you want it to be "right" as the ur quattro had a different component layout and some unique systems. Even after I had already made or modified the harnesses for my car, I still paid to get the right stuff. My fabricated harnesses are now still in boxes, on the chance that I might need to do this again if I someday get another car.
Sorry, no links. The search engine would work just as well for you as it does for me.
The 4kq wiring has the wrong window harness, rear harness (different taillights, trunk connections, no rear wiper, etc.) and other little issues. Also, the radiator fan and other under the hood wiring is very different. All you really need from a 4kq is the console wiring. BTW, I am assuming that you are also changing to the later style dash.
If you compare the late ur quattro wiring with CGTs or 4kq, you will see that there is no direct replacement. Any way you look at it you will have to do some work if you want it to be "right" as the ur quattro had a different component layout and some unique systems. Even after I had already made or modified the harnesses for my car, I still paid to get the right stuff. My fabricated harnesses are now still in boxes, on the chance that I might need to do this again if I someday get another car.
Sorry, no links. The search engine would work just as well for you as it does for me.