Audi as a RWD brand?
11-07-2006, 05:57 PM
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Audi as a RWD brand?
Interesting post over at Autoblog.com that says the Audi head is now taking over at VW.
One of the comments (#4) suggested the following:
<i>Two years ago Pischetsrieder nixed Winterkorn's plan to reposition Audi as performance rear-wheel drive brand (with awd staying as an option).
Hopefully, now that Winterkorn is the big cheese, he will proceed with that plan!</i>
Is there any truth to this? Gawd I hope not.<ul><li><a href="http://www.autoblog.com/2006/11/07/vw-ceo-step-down-audi-exec-steps-up/#comments">http://www.autoblog.com/2006/11/07/vw-ceo-step-down-audi-exec-steps-up/#comments</a</li></ul>
One of the comments (#4) suggested the following:
<i>Two years ago Pischetsrieder nixed Winterkorn's plan to reposition Audi as performance rear-wheel drive brand (with awd staying as an option).
Hopefully, now that Winterkorn is the big cheese, he will proceed with that plan!</i>
Is there any truth to this? Gawd I hope not.<ul><li><a href="http://www.autoblog.com/2006/11/07/vw-ceo-step-down-audi-exec-steps-up/#comments">http://www.autoblog.com/2006/11/07/vw-ceo-step-down-audi-exec-steps-up/#comments</a</li></ul>
11-07-2006, 08:57 PM
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Sure you do Mr. Predictable
whatever you think of the merits of RWD, Audi has secured itself a foothold based on its very successful AWD.
it would be suicidal to throw all that out the window on multiple levels.
everyone could then question their ability to engineer and what they say about their engineering.
all the sudden, quattro isn't good enough?
and why not? the rs4 is whiping its *** with an M3 right now, and even when the new comes out, the R8 and RS6 will be on the horizon.
Audi loses Quattro, and Audi loses bigtime.
it would be suicidal to throw all that out the window on multiple levels.
everyone could then question their ability to engineer and what they say about their engineering.
all the sudden, quattro isn't good enough?
and why not? the rs4 is whiping its *** with an M3 right now, and even when the new comes out, the R8 and RS6 will be on the horizon.
Audi loses Quattro, and Audi loses bigtime.
11-07-2006, 10:37 PM
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Did you even read the article?
AWD will remain an option.
OF COURSE IT WILL. Audi would not abandon quattro. However, 99% of this forum would never consider a FWD Audi. I sure as hell wouldn't. I would consider a RWD one though.
The RWD formula obviously works well for BMW who is by far the market leader. That's the success formula Audi will be hoping to follow. Audi has secured a foothold as you've said as a "runner up" FWD brand. Audi's FWD cars just can't compete in driving pleasure.
Perhaps you've forgotten that the majority of Audis sold are FWD.
Plus, switching to a RWD based quattro would allow the engine to be placed behind the rear axle line as BMW does. An Audi designed AWD system with the engine set back as BMW does it would be the best of both worlds.
How can you argue with getting rid of the FWD cars?
OF COURSE IT WILL. Audi would not abandon quattro. However, 99% of this forum would never consider a FWD Audi. I sure as hell wouldn't. I would consider a RWD one though.
The RWD formula obviously works well for BMW who is by far the market leader. That's the success formula Audi will be hoping to follow. Audi has secured a foothold as you've said as a "runner up" FWD brand. Audi's FWD cars just can't compete in driving pleasure.
Perhaps you've forgotten that the majority of Audis sold are FWD.
Plus, switching to a RWD based quattro would allow the engine to be placed behind the rear axle line as BMW does. An Audi designed AWD system with the engine set back as BMW does it would be the best of both worlds.
How can you argue with getting rid of the FWD cars?
11-08-2006, 04:06 AM
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I could care less about FWD, I agree
But a RWD based Quattro? What is that? That is a RWD based AWD? Contradiction?
If you mean a more intelligent AWD system that puts even more than 60% torque in rear most of the time, like the 911, that's fine.
But abandoning AWD is what the quote referred to, and I am against that.
Audi is not known the world over for FWD, it's known for AWD.
AWD should not remain an option, it should be the foundation of the brand.
BMW may be the market leader now, but it's solely because its a RWD platform. Audi is making big gains in other markets, I don't think they need RWD to move even further to the top.
If you mean a more intelligent AWD system that puts even more than 60% torque in rear most of the time, like the 911, that's fine.
But abandoning AWD is what the quote referred to, and I am against that.
Audi is not known the world over for FWD, it's known for AWD.
AWD should not remain an option, it should be the foundation of the brand.
BMW may be the market leader now, but it's solely because its a RWD platform. Audi is making big gains in other markets, I don't think they need RWD to move even further to the top.
11-08-2006, 06:05 AM
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There are basically two ways of constructing an AWD layout...
A FWD based system is found on cars like the TT, A3, and Mitsubishi Evo. This means the engine is mounted transversely and it has a side mounted transaxle. It's basically a front wheel drive car with provisions to spin the rear axle. Most of these cars have a torque bias and weight bias which favors the front wheels.
<img src="http://www.rsportscars.com/foto/05/auditt07_cutaway.jpg">
A RWD based system is what BMW uses. This system uses longitudinally mounted engine and transmission which is located very similar to the rear wheel drive cars. In a sense, it's a RWD car with an auxiliary shaft coming forward to drive the front axle. These systems tend to send more torque to the rear axle, although it doesn't have to.
The advantage to a RWD type layout is that the engine does not need to be fully in front of the front axle line as is the case with Audi. The BMW design will give a much better weight distribution.
<img src="http://www.bmwworld.com/pics/3er/touring/2218_832.jpg">
Audi offers FWD standard with AWD optional in the A4, A6, and A8 lines. All of these lines use a "hybrid" of the two systems above. The engine is mounted longitudinally. The drive couplers for the front axles are housed within the transmission case. The biggest problem with this setup is that the entire engine must lie in front of the front axle line. This crates major packaging problems and weight distribution issues that Audi has spent the last 15 years trying to fix. These issues aren't the end of the world as Audi has produced many wonderful cars with quattro. From the performance standpoint, the quattro system is one of the better out there. It can be improved upon though. Fixing the engine location and weight distribution issues are some of the first steps.
<img src="http://www.germancarfans.com/photos/3040906.001/1006big.jpg">
One thing you are forgetting is the quattro is NOT standard on most cars. In Germany and most of Europe, only 15 percent of Audi's sold are quattro equipped. Their bread and butter is FWD cars.
Audi is known for their quattro cars, but they are not as much of an AWD company as, say, Subaru.
<img src="http://www.rsportscars.com/foto/05/auditt07_cutaway.jpg">
A RWD based system is what BMW uses. This system uses longitudinally mounted engine and transmission which is located very similar to the rear wheel drive cars. In a sense, it's a RWD car with an auxiliary shaft coming forward to drive the front axle. These systems tend to send more torque to the rear axle, although it doesn't have to.
The advantage to a RWD type layout is that the engine does not need to be fully in front of the front axle line as is the case with Audi. The BMW design will give a much better weight distribution.
<img src="http://www.bmwworld.com/pics/3er/touring/2218_832.jpg">
Audi offers FWD standard with AWD optional in the A4, A6, and A8 lines. All of these lines use a "hybrid" of the two systems above. The engine is mounted longitudinally. The drive couplers for the front axles are housed within the transmission case. The biggest problem with this setup is that the entire engine must lie in front of the front axle line. This crates major packaging problems and weight distribution issues that Audi has spent the last 15 years trying to fix. These issues aren't the end of the world as Audi has produced many wonderful cars with quattro. From the performance standpoint, the quattro system is one of the better out there. It can be improved upon though. Fixing the engine location and weight distribution issues are some of the first steps.
<img src="http://www.germancarfans.com/photos/3040906.001/1006big.jpg">
One thing you are forgetting is the quattro is NOT standard on most cars. In Germany and most of Europe, only 15 percent of Audi's sold are quattro equipped. Their bread and butter is FWD cars.
Audi is known for their quattro cars, but they are not as much of an AWD company as, say, Subaru.
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11-08-2006, 02:10 PM
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I understand, so in that case they can build it however they want, as long as they don't lose the
focus on Quattro on some level.
Rather than making Quattro optional, make RWD optional.
Maybe we're splitting hairs, I dunno. But I would hate to see them become just another RWD based company.
Rather than making Quattro optional, make RWD optional.
Maybe we're splitting hairs, I dunno. But I would hate to see them become just another RWD based company.
