Ragdoll

I just wonder how many people have directly voiced their concern with them about it?

Perhaps with a message kind of like... oh I don't know, this?

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First off. Do not for a moment think that this is plainly a complaint that can be handled with a "copy and paste" response from the customer support department. This is a legitimate question on the minds of most RS4 owners.

My question is related to the issue of Audi's FSI engines suffering from oil deposit accumulation on the intake valves. Certainly Audi is aware that with an FSI motor, petrol is not passing over the intake valves, thus cleaning them, like that of a direct port injection system. With that, the valves get choked full of oil vapor which eventually causes CEL's(Check Engine Lights). The RS4's elaborate crankcase ventilation system is equipped with a 3-stage venturi cyclone 'technology' which is clearly not up to the task of alleviating this.

Audi dealerships are being trained to merely clean the valve through an elaborate process and sending us on our way. Clearly, this is a band-aid fix. The issue comes back. Without fail.

So the question: Is Audi sticking their head in the sand, so to speak, in regards to this issue, or are they actively creating a solution for all of us that dropped USD$80,000 for this otherwise wonderful vehicle?

I am not a mechanic and don't claim to be one. But be assured that as a whole, the RS4 owner community are not a lot of uneducated car owners. We know that there is a serious flaw in this system.

The following should not be taken as a threat in any way whatsoever... but this message is also being shared with the large RS4 forums in the United States where most North America RS4 owners come together. This is not to "gang up" on Audi, but to communicate concerns and solutions to this matter together.

We would like a response. We would appreciate it sooner than later. Your time in reading this and replying with a thorough explaination of steps Audi is taking to fix this are greatly appreciated by all.

Thank you once again for your time and consideration in this matter.

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You know... something like that?

Ragdoll

FYI,

Audi Of America already called me back today to discuss my e-mail(above).

I will call them later and report back.

Everyone should do this!

JMSIV

With all due respect, could we be making a mountain out of a mole hill?

The RS4 is far from the only direct injection car on earth. Audi has probably made millions of FSI cars. I have seen some pictures of dirty intake valves. That is going to happen. But.... so what?

What am I missing?

RS4POWER

Those dirty valves handicap air flow and that robs performance and you end up with an RS4 that feels more like an S4 or less.

Thats just the beginning of it, I just got my intake valves cleaned from the dealer and I can tell you one thing. I am glad to have an RS4 again. It is that much of a difference.

JMSIV

"With that, the valves get choked full of oil vapor which eventually causes CEL's(Check Engine Lights). The RS4's elaborate crankcase ventilation system is equipped with a 3-stage venturi cyclone 'technology' which is clearly not up to the task of alleviating this."

Well, oil vapor is not going to choke anything, so I might change that wording.

I do not think CELs are the norm. I certainly have never had one. I don't feel any difference in power either. My dealer has had zero complaints (and yes, they are very good).

I have no doubt that the intake valves have some oil on them. Oil deposits? Like solids? From where? If there are solids, then something else is wrong.

Is oil on the surface of the intake runners going to significantly change airflow to the motor? I have trouble getting my head around that. How much are you narrowing the intake passage? A few thousandths of an inch?

Cleaning the system improved performance? Could it be that the injectors were the issue, not the airflow? Crappy gas? I just don't think this proves there is a global problem, only that there is a problem with select cars. And it doesn't prove what that problem is.

What other cars use direct injection, besides EVERY diesel:
A3, A4, A5, TT
VWs (since 2000)
GM's ecotec motor (2004)
Mazda 6
R8, LP560
newer P-cars
Ferrari (after dissecting the RS4 motor).

All of these lack fuel injectors in the intake runners, and all have crankcase ventilation systems that recirculate the crankcase air into the intake system. I just don't see this as a problem in the design, but more likely issues with individual cars.

Just knowing that someone is getting repeated CELs makes me pretty sure that there is something else wrong with the car.

Should you pursue it? Hell yes. SOMETHING IS WRONG. But I don't think it is the injection or PCV design, you have something undiagnosed that ain't working like it should. I'd be more interested in figuring out what that is.

Ragdoll

Dood.... you need to read up or something.

This thread isn't purposed for this discussion. The facts are already out there. Look at diagrams, pictures and explainations as to the system. There is too much information out there already for me to write it up again.

On top of educating yourself on this issue, also read what "porting and polishing" is and why people do it. Summarized, people clean and polish out material from the intake/exhaust ports as well as the combustion chambers. Why? To gain more air flow for one(more power gains). Now, we don't need to bother doing that on our cars... but to take it in the other direction and have chunky buildup from carbon deposits that aren't washed away in the DI process, that is a performance killer.

Start here: https://www.audiworld.com/forums/sho....php?t=2746474

Ragdoll

You won't, either. Because it's a relatively slow process over the course of 1000's of miles that it builds up. It's not like you park the car one night all nice and clean and then KAPOW-EE the yucky-muck just manifests itself the next morning when you go out for a drive. You're just getting used to it.

My mom was found to have a decent amount of cancer last year. Not like it just appeared overnight, she would have sensed that. It grew slowly...

Comprende?

Side note: My mom is fine now!

RS4POWER

JMSIV...


My RS4 has been one of the very many to suffer from CB. There have been many other RS4's here in the US and over in UK. The 2.0tsfi, A63.2fsi, Q7 and all FSI motors have been reporting the same results when the manifold needed to be taken off for inspection.

You are right, the RS4's does have an elaborate crankcase ventilation system that is equipped with a 3-stage venturi cyclone technology and it is indeed not up to the task.

You are also right to believe that there should be a very thin oil film on the back of the intake valves. I am here to tell you that is not the case. What was on the back of my valves and every other fsi egine that was pictures was thick black soot/crud/gunk. It was not few thousand of an inch but more like about twice the size the stem of the valve and more. It was ridiculous.

Now how does this affect performance. It all comes to ECU reading less air flow and retards timing. I was fortunate to run in to a ported polished manifold while the car was open and had it installed instead of the one originally on the car. The combination of the ported/polished IM along with the clean valves have transformed this
car in to viscious animal and its a pleasure to drive all over like it used to be when first purchased.

Here is a link of what happened to my car to go along with the one ragdoll posted above. Pretty useful info and we all need to join together with/against Audi to get the ball rolling on a fix to a flaw in the FSI design.


http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=297492

Ragdoll

R8 owners are now reporting this issue as well.

I have a friend with a Chevy something or other that has a Direct Injection. After 15k he said he took it in for rough idle. He also told me he's not for sure, but that the car feels slower. So they took it apart. Guess WHAT they found!? Ha

So they cleaned the valves and such and gave it back to him. He said it was like a kick in the pants. More power, idle was smooth again, and he says he gets a mile or two out of a gallon.

Stupid automotive world and their "new" technology.

Ragdoll

I wish I could edit my posts so I don't have to keep making new ones when I have another thought.

Toyota seems to have figured this game out already. Their Direct Injection motors don't suffer this issue the rest of us do. I guess they use a combo of direct and port injection?

Not 100% sure on the process so I won't comment.