An honest B7 RS4 to stage 3+ B5 S4 comparison
12-30-2006, 09:01 AM
#1
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An honest B7 RS4 to stage 3+ B5 S4 comparison
While this topic has been discussed umteen times before, I haven't seen too many objective comparisons from someone who has actually owned and driven both these vehicles. So here goes. Keep in mind that I'm still in the break in period here so I haven't tapped into the full power potential of the RS4 as of yet.
I have spent 1.5 days joy riding in my new beast. Fortunately I live a bit out into the countryside in western Massachusetts and have easy access to some phenomenal driving roads.
No superlatives here, just an honest descriptive comparison.
1. Power/engine:
The B7 RS4 does not have the sheer lunging mid-rpm thrust of a stage 3+ B5 S4. Mind you, I had custom OCT software and was running 25lbs of boost. That being said, throttle response of the RS4 is far superior. It is smooth and fast right from the get-go. That lunging, surging turbo pull in the B5 is also short lived. It really doesn't come on with intensity until about 3500 rpm and starts to fade at just over 6000 rpm. Which is actually faster? It is hard to say since the power delivery is just so different. The objective 0-60 data are roughly the same. The intense power level is, however, easier to manage, control and much more predictable in the RS4 due to its linearity. Exiting a corner in the B5 under near full throttle produced a lunging out the turn that made the whole high speed maneuver feel more unsettling, at least for me.
2. Handling:
ON THE STREET, there is no comparison here. I won't get the RS4 to a track until late spring, so this is not a track comparsion. On smooth country back roads and sweeping on and off ramps, the RS4 dominated over my previous B5 S4 with Stasis Track Sport 600/700 suspension, B5 RS4 replica wheels, and Bridgestone tires sized 225 in width. It also bettered my previous set-up of MTM full suspension, Neuspeed rear sway bar, and BBS wheels/Bridgestone 225's. Body roll seemed to be much more smoothly controlled and the compromise in ride quality to obtain this level of control was not there. The modded B5 with Stasis had less roll in an absolute sense, but the forces put upon my body as a result made me feel less comfortable as speeds rose in the turns. The speeds at which I was able to take on ramps was a good 15mph higher in the RS4 without FEELING like the car was going to cut loose. The steering is much more direct and perfectly weighted in effort. The steering effort in the B5 is too light, especially for the higher powered variants.
3. Shifter/Clutch:
The stock shifter in the RS4 is a huge improvement over the B5 S4. this is no secret. Still, the throws are just a bit long. It wasn't as slick as my UUC short shifter in my B5 S4. It is good enough, however, that I probably won't do anything with it. The clutch in the RS4 is lighter and easier to modulate than the B5 RS4 clutch that was in the S4.
4. Sound:
I had two exhausts on my B5 S4. first was an MTM cat-back, then Milltek full exhaust. The sound of the RS4 is far more intoxicating, although this can't be purely attributed to the exhaust. In the end, however, the final product is what counts, and the aural presence of the stock RS4 is superior.
5.Braking:
Can't really comment until I've done some track time. My B5 had Stoptech 332mm front brakes, but you really never apporach the limits of a braking system on the street.
6. Interior/ergonomics:
RS4 wins by a wide margin, but this isn't really fair since it is a much newer car. Still, a comparison, is a comparison, and there has been enough commotion about comparing these two vehicles that you can't ignore this aspect. Remember, you spend your time in the car looking, interacting, "living" with the interior that you are sitting in.
In the end, what it comes down to for the B7 RS4 vs. stage 3+ B5 S4 is the expression "the whole is greater than the sum of the parts".
Yes, in theory, one can build a B5 S4 to compete with the new RS4. The acceleration times, skid pad numbers, and possibly even road course times are most likely comparable. In the end, however, the result is just not as satisfying. The RS4 has a FAR SUPERIOR NATURAL FLUIDITY and HARMONIOUS INTEGRATION of all it's performance parameters that the pieced-together B5 simply can't match. By comparison, the modded B5 seems like just that - a hack job, pieced together, artificial.
So...from an owner of both.....
In terms of pure driving enjoyment and satisfaction from time behind the wheel, the RS4 wins, and wins easily. It is simply a higher level of automobile, pure and simple. Let the flames come on. If the results were different, I really would have stated so.
I have spent 1.5 days joy riding in my new beast. Fortunately I live a bit out into the countryside in western Massachusetts and have easy access to some phenomenal driving roads.
No superlatives here, just an honest descriptive comparison.
1. Power/engine:
The B7 RS4 does not have the sheer lunging mid-rpm thrust of a stage 3+ B5 S4. Mind you, I had custom OCT software and was running 25lbs of boost. That being said, throttle response of the RS4 is far superior. It is smooth and fast right from the get-go. That lunging, surging turbo pull in the B5 is also short lived. It really doesn't come on with intensity until about 3500 rpm and starts to fade at just over 6000 rpm. Which is actually faster? It is hard to say since the power delivery is just so different. The objective 0-60 data are roughly the same. The intense power level is, however, easier to manage, control and much more predictable in the RS4 due to its linearity. Exiting a corner in the B5 under near full throttle produced a lunging out the turn that made the whole high speed maneuver feel more unsettling, at least for me.
2. Handling:
ON THE STREET, there is no comparison here. I won't get the RS4 to a track until late spring, so this is not a track comparsion. On smooth country back roads and sweeping on and off ramps, the RS4 dominated over my previous B5 S4 with Stasis Track Sport 600/700 suspension, B5 RS4 replica wheels, and Bridgestone tires sized 225 in width. It also bettered my previous set-up of MTM full suspension, Neuspeed rear sway bar, and BBS wheels/Bridgestone 225's. Body roll seemed to be much more smoothly controlled and the compromise in ride quality to obtain this level of control was not there. The modded B5 with Stasis had less roll in an absolute sense, but the forces put upon my body as a result made me feel less comfortable as speeds rose in the turns. The speeds at which I was able to take on ramps was a good 15mph higher in the RS4 without FEELING like the car was going to cut loose. The steering is much more direct and perfectly weighted in effort. The steering effort in the B5 is too light, especially for the higher powered variants.
3. Shifter/Clutch:
The stock shifter in the RS4 is a huge improvement over the B5 S4. this is no secret. Still, the throws are just a bit long. It wasn't as slick as my UUC short shifter in my B5 S4. It is good enough, however, that I probably won't do anything with it. The clutch in the RS4 is lighter and easier to modulate than the B5 RS4 clutch that was in the S4.
4. Sound:
I had two exhausts on my B5 S4. first was an MTM cat-back, then Milltek full exhaust. The sound of the RS4 is far more intoxicating, although this can't be purely attributed to the exhaust. In the end, however, the final product is what counts, and the aural presence of the stock RS4 is superior.
5.Braking:
Can't really comment until I've done some track time. My B5 had Stoptech 332mm front brakes, but you really never apporach the limits of a braking system on the street.
6. Interior/ergonomics:
RS4 wins by a wide margin, but this isn't really fair since it is a much newer car. Still, a comparison, is a comparison, and there has been enough commotion about comparing these two vehicles that you can't ignore this aspect. Remember, you spend your time in the car looking, interacting, "living" with the interior that you are sitting in.
In the end, what it comes down to for the B7 RS4 vs. stage 3+ B5 S4 is the expression "the whole is greater than the sum of the parts".
Yes, in theory, one can build a B5 S4 to compete with the new RS4. The acceleration times, skid pad numbers, and possibly even road course times are most likely comparable. In the end, however, the result is just not as satisfying. The RS4 has a FAR SUPERIOR NATURAL FLUIDITY and HARMONIOUS INTEGRATION of all it's performance parameters that the pieced-together B5 simply can't match. By comparison, the modded B5 seems like just that - a hack job, pieced together, artificial.
So...from an owner of both.....
In terms of pure driving enjoyment and satisfaction from time behind the wheel, the RS4 wins, and wins easily. It is simply a higher level of automobile, pure and simple. Let the flames come on. If the results were different, I really would have stated so.
12-30-2006, 09:32 AM
#2
Best review I've read. Wait till you get her totally broken in. You'll fall in love again.
The Evil-one ain't a lyin'<ul><li><a href="https://forums.audiworld.com/rs4b7/msgs/33348.phtml">Warp Speed</a></li></ul>
12-30-2006, 10:11 AM
#4
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I would agree that the B7 RS4 is an overall better package...
I would also say that the B5 chassis not nearly the chassis the B7 is. The B5 can be made to be a track monster and I would be willing to bet there are very few B7 RS4 that could out perform a propery sorted B5 S4 on the track. My B5 weighs 3300lbs without me in it and the B7 RS4 weighs about 3900 lbs that is a huge difference. The only way to really tell would be to put the same driver in both cars on the same track on the same day. If some power upgrades come to market for the B7 RS4 then the track outcome might be different.
A Stage 3 B5 S4 can do 0 to 60's in under 4 seconds and 1/4 miles in 11.5 to 12.0.... last time I checked that was faster then any B7 RS4.
I have a modified B7 A4 and I enjoy driving the car more on a daily basis as the B5 is not as comfortable. Not too mention the B7 is so well put together the fit and finish is fantastic. Also, the B5 chassis is a wet noodle compared to the B7.
Is the RS4 a better overall package, yes it is and in the future could it be made to be faster then a B5 S4 yes.... but again this is a stock to modified comparison.
IMO, I think this comparison is kind of silly as they are different cars.... I really like my B5 but prefer a b7 as a daily driver.
A Stage 3 B5 S4 can do 0 to 60's in under 4 seconds and 1/4 miles in 11.5 to 12.0.... last time I checked that was faster then any B7 RS4.
I have a modified B7 A4 and I enjoy driving the car more on a daily basis as the B5 is not as comfortable. Not too mention the B7 is so well put together the fit and finish is fantastic. Also, the B5 chassis is a wet noodle compared to the B7.
Is the RS4 a better overall package, yes it is and in the future could it be made to be faster then a B5 S4 yes.... but again this is a stock to modified comparison.
IMO, I think this comparison is kind of silly as they are different cars.... I really like my B5 but prefer a b7 as a daily driver.
12-30-2006, 10:39 AM
#5
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This is the type of review I was asking for several months back. Unfortunately back then some
people on this board were offended and thought I was trying to put down the RS4. Thanks for the great review. Can you comment a little on the torque feel of this car compared to your previous car? Are you saying that this car does not throw you back into your seat the same way the S4 does? This is something I really like about my car and am not sure I will appreciate the smoothness of the RS4.
12-30-2006, 10:44 AM
#6
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I think with a few mods to enhance the power, better brakes and a better suspension this car...
Would be a faster car around a track then a B5 S4 Stage 3.
This would be a more realistic way of comparing a modified B5 S4 with the RS4. There is no doubt that the RS4 in its present form is a great car.
This would be a more realistic way of comparing a modified B5 S4 with the RS4. There is no doubt that the RS4 in its present form is a great car.
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12-30-2006, 02:10 PM
#8
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Your answers....
No, you don't have that high torque feeling at the same level as 20+ lbs of boost on the 2.7T. That's what I was referring to in my first paragraph when I talked about that monsterous surge in the mid rpm region with the modded B5's. However, the pull in this car comes on earlier, is instantaneous, and lasts much longer. It definitely DOES throw you back into your seat. And while it may not do so with quite the same maximal ferocity as the modded S4, it keeps you pinned much longer. In terms of a pure fun factor, the RS4 wins for me. The instant massive V8 throttle response is just as much fun as the turbo-surge, but it is different. The RS4 engine as a whole just feels so much more refined. In this aspect, it isn't even close. It revs like a Honda S2000 engine but pulls like a freight train. Simply intoxicating. Like I said, you can talk about all the numbers, specs, etc you want. At the end of the day, this car will leave you with a bigger ****-eating grin than a the B5.
12-30-2006, 02:46 PM
#10
... but pulls like a freight train
You hit the nail on the head. It's the entire package. Not only does the engine seem to pull forever, but also the vehicle is rock solid. At 8250 rpm, the engine keeps breathing and pulling. At 160+ mph indicated in 5th gear, it sounds like a freight train.