Looking...have a few questions
11-11-2006, 06:56 PM
#1
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Looking...have a few questions
Fellas, it has been a LONG time since I posted here...prolly since the B6 S4 came out. At the time, I was trying to decide whether to pull the trigger on an E46 M3, or the S. All the problems the S4 was going through at the time (trannies, racks, coils)kind of tipped things towards the boys aus Bavaria.
Fast forward about 3 years, and hey! I'm back. I still REALLY like my M, but am getting the new car itch. Spy shots of the E92 really aren't floating my boat at all. The E60 M5 seems to be having teething problems of its own too.
With all this in mind, today I swung by a dealership in Houston to take a look at an employee owned RS4 and was quite impressed. I did not get to drive or even ride in it, just got to turn the engine over, take a look at the interior, pop the hood. Basically just eyeball it. Beautiful machine.
Listening to the sales guy I spoke with this evening, you'd think that Audi has NEVER had any problems with any of its cars. Ok, he wasn't that bad, but of course, he's trying to get me to buy one, right? He just said there were no issues "that he was aware of?"
So, in reality, what issues are there? What can I expect? Anyone an ex-M3 owner? Comparisons?
I searched through a few pages of posts, but tbh don't want to spend 6 hours sifting through page after page.
Thanks in advance.
Fast forward about 3 years, and hey! I'm back. I still REALLY like my M, but am getting the new car itch. Spy shots of the E92 really aren't floating my boat at all. The E60 M5 seems to be having teething problems of its own too.
With all this in mind, today I swung by a dealership in Houston to take a look at an employee owned RS4 and was quite impressed. I did not get to drive or even ride in it, just got to turn the engine over, take a look at the interior, pop the hood. Basically just eyeball it. Beautiful machine.
Listening to the sales guy I spoke with this evening, you'd think that Audi has NEVER had any problems with any of its cars. Ok, he wasn't that bad, but of course, he's trying to get me to buy one, right? He just said there were no issues "that he was aware of?"
So, in reality, what issues are there? What can I expect? Anyone an ex-M3 owner? Comparisons?
I searched through a few pages of posts, but tbh don't want to spend 6 hours sifting through page after page.
Thanks in advance.
11-11-2006, 07:15 PM
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Only common problem this car had was a faulty clutch hose that
eventually became a problem with some cars.
Audi put out a TSB and shipped a newly designed hose and the problems have dissapeared from what we know.
New cars though are built with the new clutch hose so it's not an issue.
Other than that, and some people having oil burning issues (i'd say around here that was like 50/50) the car has been by and large trouble free.
Audi put out a TSB and shipped a newly designed hose and the problems have dissapeared from what we know.
New cars though are built with the new clutch hose so it's not an issue.
Other than that, and some people having oil burning issues (i'd say around here that was like 50/50) the car has been by and large trouble free.
11-11-2006, 07:56 PM
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agree with what he said and i even think the oil use is more due to the high rev nature
of the engine and not an actual problem. the usage of oil seems to decrease with increased mileage on the cars.
11-11-2006, 08:24 PM
#5
Nah, it's poor piston ring seal, coupled with crappy low weight factory oil
If you don't get the rings seated early on, you run the potential of long term high oil consumption and reduced power output. There are two aspects to piston ring break-in.
First, and foremost, the rings need to seat into the piston grooves evenly. If deposits form it is possible that the rings will never seat properly. This is why on break-in you want to apply high power acceleration, followed by compression deceleration. This forces the rings to move symmetrically within the grooves and wear-in properly. It is here that blow-by gasses want to create deposits. This seal should happen rather quickly, otherwise, deposits start forming, and there is no way to easily reverse the process.
Second, the rings need to lap against the cylinder walls. In the "old days" cylinder walls were made of iron, which meant that there was fairly even wear between the rings and the cylinder surface. A honed cylinder had a cross-hatch pattern to facilitate abrasion and good lapping of the ring coatings.
In this engine and several in the Audi line, the cylnders are composed of Alusil, which is a high-silicon aluminium. The cylinders are cast, bored, and then chemically etched to remove the aluminium, exposing hard silicon (i.e. - glass). Then the silicon walls are polished. The reason this engine takes 7k to 10k miles to fully break-in is due to the composition of these cylinder walls. Silicon is much harder than then metals on a piston ring, will not wear much, and will not cause much wear on the rings. It takes a long time to fully wear the rings down to the point where they provide maximum seal. In the early days of break-in, there may be a few rough spots and surface contaminates that need to be removed, but not like the old days.
To reduce oil consumption, all you have to do is:
- Break in the engine with hard acceleration and deceleration after the engine 7000 rpm warning goes off (this can be done just fine within the factory limits).
- As soon as break-in is over, change out the factory oil and replace it with a good 5W40 oil. (the factory oil is either a 0W30 or a 5W30, and shears to a high 20W, which blows right by the rings.)
- Do not use WOT, until the manual says you can, since excess fuel at WOT will cause contamination of the oil, reducing it's weight, and causing more consumption and wear.
- Do not let the engine idle or warm up while sitting. Most deposits on the rings form at idle, when combustion chamber pressures are the lowest. At startup it's even worse, since air/fuel mixture is enriched, causing more fuel to be blown through the rings into the crankcase.
- Just get in the car, start her up, and drive her.
First, and foremost, the rings need to seat into the piston grooves evenly. If deposits form it is possible that the rings will never seat properly. This is why on break-in you want to apply high power acceleration, followed by compression deceleration. This forces the rings to move symmetrically within the grooves and wear-in properly. It is here that blow-by gasses want to create deposits. This seal should happen rather quickly, otherwise, deposits start forming, and there is no way to easily reverse the process.
Second, the rings need to lap against the cylinder walls. In the "old days" cylinder walls were made of iron, which meant that there was fairly even wear between the rings and the cylinder surface. A honed cylinder had a cross-hatch pattern to facilitate abrasion and good lapping of the ring coatings.
In this engine and several in the Audi line, the cylnders are composed of Alusil, which is a high-silicon aluminium. The cylinders are cast, bored, and then chemically etched to remove the aluminium, exposing hard silicon (i.e. - glass). Then the silicon walls are polished. The reason this engine takes 7k to 10k miles to fully break-in is due to the composition of these cylinder walls. Silicon is much harder than then metals on a piston ring, will not wear much, and will not cause much wear on the rings. It takes a long time to fully wear the rings down to the point where they provide maximum seal. In the early days of break-in, there may be a few rough spots and surface contaminates that need to be removed, but not like the old days.
To reduce oil consumption, all you have to do is:
- Break in the engine with hard acceleration and deceleration after the engine 7000 rpm warning goes off (this can be done just fine within the factory limits).
- As soon as break-in is over, change out the factory oil and replace it with a good 5W40 oil. (the factory oil is either a 0W30 or a 5W30, and shears to a high 20W, which blows right by the rings.)
- Do not use WOT, until the manual says you can, since excess fuel at WOT will cause contamination of the oil, reducing it's weight, and causing more consumption and wear.
- Do not let the engine idle or warm up while sitting. Most deposits on the rings form at idle, when combustion chamber pressures are the lowest. At startup it's even worse, since air/fuel mixture is enriched, causing more fuel to be blown through the rings into the crankcase.
- Just get in the car, start her up, and drive her.
11-11-2006, 08:34 PM
#7
Any idea what percentage of RS6's have the problem?
Given that those who are disgruntled are always the loudest.
I know that a few have gone from DRC over to the Stasis Ohlins. However, I have a bit of a concern with the long term reliability and maintaince requirements of the Ohlins, since the factory recommends a shock oil change every year or 12K miles.
Yes, the Ohlins are great track shocks, but can they handle 50K miles over 3 years with minimal to no service on the road? At least with DRC, we have a warranty and several years of RS6 experience.
I know that a few have gone from DRC over to the Stasis Ohlins. However, I have a bit of a concern with the long term reliability and maintaince requirements of the Ohlins, since the factory recommends a shock oil change every year or 12K miles.
Yes, the Ohlins are great track shocks, but can they handle 50K miles over 3 years with minimal to no service on the road? At least with DRC, we have a warranty and several years of RS6 experience.
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11-11-2006, 09:01 PM
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What's wrong with the Ohlins service requirement? My Lotus had them...
... you just send the shocks back and they check the valving and replace the parts that need replacing. You're without use of your car for a week at the most, and usually two days if at all since they keep serviced spares to swap out to you...
Do the maintenance instead of worrying about whether the part will work if you FAIL TO DO THE MAINTENANCE.
Don't be an idiot -- follow the maintenance recommendations on what you buy.
Do the maintenance instead of worrying about whether the part will work if you FAIL TO DO THE MAINTENANCE.
Don't be an idiot -- follow the maintenance recommendations on what you buy.
11-11-2006, 10:14 PM
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so you're saying, once a year you have to pay someone to remove and reinstall the shocks?
at my dealership, that's about $1000 in labor....**** that. plus, whatever it costs to: a) ship the shocks to Ohlins, and b) have them service the shocks? on a competitive track car, OK. On a street car? skip.
