My RS4 Carbon buildup experience (with photos)
10-22-2012, 07:10 PM
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My RS4 Carbon buildup experience (with photos)
I am the second owner of this RS4 with currently 44k miles, purchased with 37k. To my knowledge there was no carbon cleaning done prior to my ownership and further evidence can be seen in the pictures below. I purchased the RS4 from an Audi dealer and with a CPO
I was prepared to spend the 1k-ish dollars to get the manifold and valves cleaned properly of the carbon buildup that is inevitable in driving these Audi FSI engines. I made an appt with my dealer and then also called Audi of America and file a case just for kicks to see if they would split it with me or even just document that I fronted the money for this repair and then when I go the second time they would cover it. I thought what is the worst that can happen... Anyway as things progressed and the dealer sent me and AOA pics it was clear there was an issue and Audi covered 100% of the costs and said they will continue to work with me on the next time and possibly talk about next steps after 2 trips to the dealer for the same issue however I would never let them buy it back I love the RS4 too much.
Through this process I was shocked how many people were in the dark about the carbon buld-up issue and that more owners haven't called AOA. All 3 "advocates" I talked to at AOA and the 2 people at the dealer have never seen buildup like this. I was shocked and I don't think mine is that bad..
Dropped the car off last wednesday and picking up tomorrow. They gave me a 2013 allroad in the meantime so that was very nice and now my wife wants an allroad...figures.
All that to say I can't wait to drive my car when I pick it up tomorrow.
Enjoy the pics.
I was prepared to spend the 1k-ish dollars to get the manifold and valves cleaned properly of the carbon buildup that is inevitable in driving these Audi FSI engines. I made an appt with my dealer and then also called Audi of America and file a case just for kicks to see if they would split it with me or even just document that I fronted the money for this repair and then when I go the second time they would cover it. I thought what is the worst that can happen... Anyway as things progressed and the dealer sent me and AOA pics it was clear there was an issue and Audi covered 100% of the costs and said they will continue to work with me on the next time and possibly talk about next steps after 2 trips to the dealer for the same issue however I would never let them buy it back I love the RS4 too much.
Through this process I was shocked how many people were in the dark about the carbon buld-up issue and that more owners haven't called AOA. All 3 "advocates" I talked to at AOA and the 2 people at the dealer have never seen buildup like this. I was shocked and I don't think mine is that bad..
Dropped the car off last wednesday and picking up tomorrow. They gave me a 2013 allroad in the meantime so that was very nice and now my wife wants an allroad...figures.
All that to say I can't wait to drive my car when I pick it up tomorrow.
Enjoy the pics.
10-23-2012, 06:38 AM
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Looks pretty standard.
What were your symptoms that made you think something was wrong...CEL? rough idle? Just felt like something was missing?
I have a very similar car. 2008 with 40k miles, never carbon cleaned, currently under CPO. I tested it at the dragstrip to see how slow/how bad the carbon was. To my surprise I posted the fastest ever stock RS4 quarter mile time, quicker than any magazine or Audi or any other forum member or youtube user (12.75 @ 108.36 at 281 feet of density altitude). So that was interesting.
A friend had a 55,000 mile RS4 and got his carbon cleaned, but before he did, we went to the dragstrip. My best was 12.8, his was 13.0. He then got carbon cleaned, and we went back a week later under identical conditions. He ran the same times. So it seems the carbon isn't nearly as bad performance wise as people would have you believe.
it should be noted that we have since gone back to the dragstrip and while he has a minor exhaust mod, and has installed suspension, his car recently went 12.78 @ 110. He did that on a day when my best was 12.97 @ 109. That's pretty fast for a stockish RS4 (his car has stock tune, stock downpipes, all 4 cats, stock catback with hpipe). Maybe the carbon clean gave him a bump of power, but it took a month to kick in? In any event, as I said above when tested week one, cleaned, tested week two, the difference was negligible. It's usually about 20 wheel horsepower (25 crank) on a dyno. Certainly a good bit, but it is primarily at the peak power end of the graph, way up top in the RPM range.
What were your symptoms that made you think something was wrong...CEL? rough idle? Just felt like something was missing?
I have a very similar car. 2008 with 40k miles, never carbon cleaned, currently under CPO. I tested it at the dragstrip to see how slow/how bad the carbon was. To my surprise I posted the fastest ever stock RS4 quarter mile time, quicker than any magazine or Audi or any other forum member or youtube user (12.75 @ 108.36 at 281 feet of density altitude). So that was interesting.
A friend had a 55,000 mile RS4 and got his carbon cleaned, but before he did, we went to the dragstrip. My best was 12.8, his was 13.0. He then got carbon cleaned, and we went back a week later under identical conditions. He ran the same times. So it seems the carbon isn't nearly as bad performance wise as people would have you believe.
it should be noted that we have since gone back to the dragstrip and while he has a minor exhaust mod, and has installed suspension, his car recently went 12.78 @ 110. He did that on a day when my best was 12.97 @ 109. That's pretty fast for a stockish RS4 (his car has stock tune, stock downpipes, all 4 cats, stock catback with hpipe). Maybe the carbon clean gave him a bump of power, but it took a month to kick in? In any event, as I said above when tested week one, cleaned, tested week two, the difference was negligible. It's usually about 20 wheel horsepower (25 crank) on a dyno. Certainly a good bit, but it is primarily at the peak power end of the graph, way up top in the RPM range.
Last edited by sakimano; 10-23-2012 at 06:40 AM.
10-23-2012, 07:17 AM
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Saki, is your dragstrip down hill? We know it's pretty low to sea level, but is it also declining down? Now that the weather is cooling off, I'm going to go back to the dragstrip for ****s and giggles and see what happens....The problem is most of my dragstrips are pretty high above sea level (700ft and 1200ft)
10-23-2012, 10:10 AM
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Saki, is your dragstrip down hill? We know it's pretty low to sea level, but is it also declining down? Now that the weather is cooling off, I'm going to go back to the dragstrip for ****s and giggles and see what happens....The problem is most of my dragstrips are pretty high above sea level (700ft and 1200ft)
When we were there last week and I trapped 109 and he trapped 110, it was nice and cold with density altitude right around -100 feet.
If we can go again when it is around 40 degrees here we might even have -500 feet DA or so. Of course we'll suffer traction in 1st and 2nd gear though.
The tracks in Maryland and Jersey and New York are at sea level...and when it is cold and they're open, they can have -1000 to -1200 feet of density altitude.
10-23-2012, 12:18 PM
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I really did not have any scientific symptoms but rather it just seemed like it was not pulling like it should. I chalked it up to me just getting used to the car's power and then it became a curiosity thing and made the appt.
There was no CEL or any real sign of carbon buildup other than the evidence on the forums.
I picked it up this afternoon and in all honesty I can't tell a difference or it is not noticeable enough. I was without it for almost a week so the "butt dyno" is unreliable however, I would be dissapointed had I paid 1k out of pocket.
Not sure if that helps...
There was no CEL or any real sign of carbon buildup other than the evidence on the forums.
I picked it up this afternoon and in all honesty I can't tell a difference or it is not noticeable enough. I was without it for almost a week so the "butt dyno" is unreliable however, I would be dissapointed had I paid 1k out of pocket.
Not sure if that helps...
10-23-2012, 12:43 PM
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Wow. There's not as much of a performance loss than I've read. You're testing wasn't as rigorous as using a scientific methodology perhaps, but a pretty good indicator none-the-less.
Realistically, if it's only around a 20 hp loss, it's not going to be very noticable with 420 hp at the crank (~360 hp at the wheels). If you're tracking, yeah it's important, but day-to-day - meh.
Thanks for the info! Good to know.
Realistically, if it's only around a 20 hp loss, it's not going to be very noticable with 420 hp at the crank (~360 hp at the wheels). If you're tracking, yeah it's important, but day-to-day - meh.
Thanks for the info! Good to know.
Last edited by G35Dalf; 10-24-2012 at 05:39 PM.
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10-23-2012, 03:24 PM
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700 feet and 1200 feet is no big deal. Ours is at 680 feet. It is flat.
When we were there last week and I trapped 109 and he trapped 110, it was nice and cold with density altitude right around -100 feet.
If we can go again when it is around 40 degrees here we might even have -500 feet DA or so. Of course we'll suffer traction in 1st and 2nd gear though.
The tracks in Maryland and Jersey and New York are at sea level...and when it is cold and they're open, they can have -1000 to -1200 feet of density altitude.
When we were there last week and I trapped 109 and he trapped 110, it was nice and cold with density altitude right around -100 feet.
If we can go again when it is around 40 degrees here we might even have -500 feet DA or so. Of course we'll suffer traction in 1st and 2nd gear though.
The tracks in Maryland and Jersey and New York are at sea level...and when it is cold and they're open, they can have -1000 to -1200 feet of density altitude.
10-24-2012, 07:41 AM
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Go read our thread on dragstrip tips too. It's on audirevolution in the b6/7 section.
If you have a tune you should be able to post something in the mid 12s if it's cold out (i.e. under 60 degrees) or high 12s if it's hot.
What did you run as your best best best the two times you went? Post up your timeslip on AR and guys will be able to see where you were losing time if any.
If you have a tune you should be able to post something in the mid 12s if it's cold out (i.e. under 60 degrees) or high 12s if it's hot.
What did you run as your best best best the two times you went? Post up your timeslip on AR and guys will be able to see where you were losing time if any.
10-24-2012, 01:31 PM
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Personally I wouldn't believe anything that's posted on that crapsite. Anyone who come on this site repeatedly advertising (for a competitors site no less) will not be around here much longer.