Question for Stasis owners and Stasis people
10-05-2006, 08:05 PM
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Question for Stasis owners and Stasis people
One thing I have not heard about is dive on braking. Isn't the DRC responsible largely for minimizing brake dive? When disabled does this become more evident on hard braking with the Stais suspension (no Alcon brakes, stock) ??
Also, what about weight? Does disabling the DRC also mean draining the fluid? When adding the Stasis kit does it add any significant weight? I'm guessing it wouldn't save any.
Last question again about DRC. I thought I read that the DRC (for all its faults) did something to counteract the front heavy nature of the car. Does losing it hurt this? Or was this BS to begin with?
Thx...
Also if anyone in the NY area has this kit and would be willing to give a test drive I'l spring for a nice offering from a critically acclaimed vinyard, or just large quantities of cheap beer.
Also, what about weight? Does disabling the DRC also mean draining the fluid? When adding the Stasis kit does it add any significant weight? I'm guessing it wouldn't save any.
Last question again about DRC. I thought I read that the DRC (for all its faults) did something to counteract the front heavy nature of the car. Does losing it hurt this? Or was this BS to begin with?
Thx...
Also if anyone in the NY area has this kit and would be willing to give a test drive I'l spring for a nice offering from a critically acclaimed vinyard, or just large quantities of cheap beer.
10-05-2006, 10:37 PM
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My thoughts on the subject
The DRC does do a very good job at dive control... and although I had the DRC in my RS6 but not the Ohlins. I can say that my S4 and now A4 both exhibit very little dive under hard braking.... it is hard to say if one is better then the other at dive control.
As for the weight between the two systems. I would be willing to bet there is a small savings with the STaSIS Ohlins set up as the body and most of the components are made from aluminum which most likely would be lighter then the steel OEM compenents.
The DRC's ability to fight the front of the car diving under braking would help with turn in as it would help level out the weight. As I stated earlier I don't think the DRC is any better then the Ohlins at this and vice-verse. I can tell you that the dampening charicteristics are better with the Ohlins and that would help with turn in and streering feed back beyond dive control. Not too mention better overall body and chassis control, IMO.
As for the weight between the two systems. I would be willing to bet there is a small savings with the STaSIS Ohlins set up as the body and most of the components are made from aluminum which most likely would be lighter then the steel OEM compenents.
The DRC's ability to fight the front of the car diving under braking would help with turn in as it would help level out the weight. As I stated earlier I don't think the DRC is any better then the Ohlins at this and vice-verse. I can tell you that the dampening charicteristics are better with the Ohlins and that would help with turn in and streering feed back beyond dive control. Not too mention better overall body and chassis control, IMO.
10-06-2006, 06:03 AM
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Yes like the regular A4/S4, the uprights, the arms/links are aluminum but the shocks themselves...
Are made of steel. The Motorsport kit as shocks made of aluminum and even with the external reservoirs and its lines (front shocks only) they are lighter than the OEM steel units.
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10-06-2006, 08:19 AM
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After 300 miles, I can tell you this much:
BRAKE DIVE
Brake dive is FAR LESS with STaSIS than with DRC. This is all down to spring rate. The front factory springs, at ~350lbs/in, simply don't have the resistance to counteract pitching, and DRC can only do so much. The RS4 is a BOAT in the US factory configuration.
With the STaSIS front springs (750lbs/in) and whatever anti-dive geometry Audi may have built into the rear axle/braking system, this car is now suspended in a way that inspires confidence. The OEM suspension is absolutely worthless for an expert driver. For the non-expert, the comfort trade-off is most likely fine, but for the aspiring expert, the OEM setup is a barrier to learning.
In conversation with friends, I have compared the factory handling of the M3 CS (my other car) to the factory handling of the RS4: in the M3 CS, the driver feels like the pilot in a jet fighter, with the machine literally strapped to the drivers body, functioning as an extension of same. In the RS4, I feel like the captain of a cruise ship.
WEIGHT
Disabling the DRC may involve draining some fluid between removed shocks and capped line, but I suspect the main reservoir is still fluid filled, and that weight savings here is minimal.
Judging by the weight of the box of old parts that came back after installation, compared to the weight of the STaSIS box I gave them, I'd say the STaSIS kit is about HALF the weight of the OEM kit.
Anecdotally, the OEM springs and the STaSIS (Hypercoil) springs look VERY different. The STaSIS springs look like threads that were peeled off of a VERY large bolt, whereas the OEM springs look like the Michelin Man-- giant, widely spaced skinny coils whose radii tighten at the top and bottom. The STaSIS coils look like cylinders, with thick coils and not a lot of space in between them.
And, hey, they're Navy Blue !
DRC AND FRONT-HEAVY NATURE OF CAR
DRC does not hold a candle to the STaSIS kit in this regard. My car now has MUCH more bite in the front end, and seems much more willing to turn-in than it did with the OEM setup. I imagine that this comes from two places: 1) spring rate and dampening force, and 2) ride height adjustment.
The body rolls less on turn-in, so the inside tire does more work, and the dampening controls the set much more quickly, so there's no wobble taking a set.
The ride height spec from STaSIS calls for a flatter static pitch, which places more weight on the rear wheels than the factory setup. In my case, however, it would appear that the ride height adjustment was not carried out according to STaSIS spec, at least not according to my naked eye assessment on level ground.
The factory setup shows more space over the front tire than the rear, and so do the pictures we have seen from STaSIS on the forum of completed installs, even though the car is lower overall.
In my case, the space over the front and rear tires is about the same, even though it is lower than factory. This tells me that my car has actually been pitched forward MORE THAN the factory setup, which would suggest that MORE weight is on the front than there used to be, which COULD explain how I was able, for the first time, to achieve trailing throttle oversteer in this car !!
The trade-offs between weight distribution, bite, and under/oversteer are complicated, with neither extreme being the complete answer, so I still have some testing to do in order to understand what's happening here, but suffice it to say that the installer grants 1 free ride height adjustment (and alignment) after initial installation, so I am not concerned about tweaking this to perfection yet... I'm still getting used to the new handling characteristics.
My next steps will be to start playing with compression and rebound settings, so I understand how various settings might be appropriate in various driving scenarios.
BOTTOM LINE
You lose NOTHING with respect to DRC when you install the STaSIS kit.
What you lose is that plush, cushy, mushy, cruise-ship like handling characteristic that comes from woefully undersprung corners that attempt to make up for their inadequacy with that hack called DRC.
Keep in mind that that opinion is mine, and yours may differ, and that's OK.
My opinion comes from the fundamental requirement that I be able to balance the car at the limit; This is, without a LOT of practice, VERY difficult to do with the factory kit.
If your fundamental requirement does not include at-the-limit handling characteristics, then your opinion may differ from mine.
Still, the increase in ride firmness with the STaSIS kit is NOT uncomfortable for everyday driving (and I haven't even tested softening it up yet), and my guess is that you cannot float over road surface imperfections they way you can with the OEM kit even if you do soften it up at the shock level.
But, STaSIS does offer a spring exchange, wherein you can get softer springs if the standard increase in firmness ends up being too much for your taste. You tell them what you want to feel when you order, and they send springs with rates that fit your description.
Maybe Audi should have invested their dollars in smart springs and smart shocks, instead of DRC. On the other hand, maybe this was a marketing gambit, and not a technology coup...
With the STaSIS kit, the RS4 is finally deserving of the "R" designation. Without it, it's a fancied-up version of the S4 on an A4-like suspension (IMO!).
Brake dive is FAR LESS with STaSIS than with DRC. This is all down to spring rate. The front factory springs, at ~350lbs/in, simply don't have the resistance to counteract pitching, and DRC can only do so much. The RS4 is a BOAT in the US factory configuration.
With the STaSIS front springs (750lbs/in) and whatever anti-dive geometry Audi may have built into the rear axle/braking system, this car is now suspended in a way that inspires confidence. The OEM suspension is absolutely worthless for an expert driver. For the non-expert, the comfort trade-off is most likely fine, but for the aspiring expert, the OEM setup is a barrier to learning.
In conversation with friends, I have compared the factory handling of the M3 CS (my other car) to the factory handling of the RS4: in the M3 CS, the driver feels like the pilot in a jet fighter, with the machine literally strapped to the drivers body, functioning as an extension of same. In the RS4, I feel like the captain of a cruise ship.
WEIGHT
Disabling the DRC may involve draining some fluid between removed shocks and capped line, but I suspect the main reservoir is still fluid filled, and that weight savings here is minimal.
Judging by the weight of the box of old parts that came back after installation, compared to the weight of the STaSIS box I gave them, I'd say the STaSIS kit is about HALF the weight of the OEM kit.
Anecdotally, the OEM springs and the STaSIS (Hypercoil) springs look VERY different. The STaSIS springs look like threads that were peeled off of a VERY large bolt, whereas the OEM springs look like the Michelin Man-- giant, widely spaced skinny coils whose radii tighten at the top and bottom. The STaSIS coils look like cylinders, with thick coils and not a lot of space in between them.
And, hey, they're Navy Blue !
DRC AND FRONT-HEAVY NATURE OF CAR
DRC does not hold a candle to the STaSIS kit in this regard. My car now has MUCH more bite in the front end, and seems much more willing to turn-in than it did with the OEM setup. I imagine that this comes from two places: 1) spring rate and dampening force, and 2) ride height adjustment.
The body rolls less on turn-in, so the inside tire does more work, and the dampening controls the set much more quickly, so there's no wobble taking a set.
The ride height spec from STaSIS calls for a flatter static pitch, which places more weight on the rear wheels than the factory setup. In my case, however, it would appear that the ride height adjustment was not carried out according to STaSIS spec, at least not according to my naked eye assessment on level ground.
The factory setup shows more space over the front tire than the rear, and so do the pictures we have seen from STaSIS on the forum of completed installs, even though the car is lower overall.
In my case, the space over the front and rear tires is about the same, even though it is lower than factory. This tells me that my car has actually been pitched forward MORE THAN the factory setup, which would suggest that MORE weight is on the front than there used to be, which COULD explain how I was able, for the first time, to achieve trailing throttle oversteer in this car !!
The trade-offs between weight distribution, bite, and under/oversteer are complicated, with neither extreme being the complete answer, so I still have some testing to do in order to understand what's happening here, but suffice it to say that the installer grants 1 free ride height adjustment (and alignment) after initial installation, so I am not concerned about tweaking this to perfection yet... I'm still getting used to the new handling characteristics.
My next steps will be to start playing with compression and rebound settings, so I understand how various settings might be appropriate in various driving scenarios.
BOTTOM LINE
You lose NOTHING with respect to DRC when you install the STaSIS kit.
What you lose is that plush, cushy, mushy, cruise-ship like handling characteristic that comes from woefully undersprung corners that attempt to make up for their inadequacy with that hack called DRC.
Keep in mind that that opinion is mine, and yours may differ, and that's OK.
My opinion comes from the fundamental requirement that I be able to balance the car at the limit; This is, without a LOT of practice, VERY difficult to do with the factory kit.
If your fundamental requirement does not include at-the-limit handling characteristics, then your opinion may differ from mine.
Still, the increase in ride firmness with the STaSIS kit is NOT uncomfortable for everyday driving (and I haven't even tested softening it up yet), and my guess is that you cannot float over road surface imperfections they way you can with the OEM kit even if you do soften it up at the shock level.
But, STaSIS does offer a spring exchange, wherein you can get softer springs if the standard increase in firmness ends up being too much for your taste. You tell them what you want to feel when you order, and they send springs with rates that fit your description.
Maybe Audi should have invested their dollars in smart springs and smart shocks, instead of DRC. On the other hand, maybe this was a marketing gambit, and not a technology coup...
With the STaSIS kit, the RS4 is finally deserving of the "R" designation. Without it, it's a fancied-up version of the S4 on an A4-like suspension (IMO!).