jchobby

What is it? The dealer says engine has already been run out at the factory. Drive it as you would right out of the box. Also oil changes - follow factory. I am concerned about ring seating & oil consumption as indicated by some. I have seen various postings like mgdsh 2006-12-20. Aggressive break-in that includes Deceleration with compression breaking (downshifting I assume). Your thoughts.

BAM

they provide a great deal of detail on his suggested procedure [and reasoning for it].

Now that this topic has been touched again - I will share with you the info I received from my dealership.

The info was given by someone I trust a lot as an Audi mechanic [and has gone through extensive training/workshops in Germany with Audi engineers..]

RPM: no limit. This engine is a racing engine - you are _expected_ and _advised_ to hammer it to its max, from the start. He said - quote - 'forget the manual. This engine has already been hammered in the first few km's in the factory.' He actually said that ring seating is clearly improved if you go full 8,250 from the beginning.. without waiting the recommended break-in mileage.

Oil: he advised _against_ changing the oil _before_ the 5,000 miles [8,000 km]. Reasons? Two: the factory oil contains special break-in elements.. and 2nd reason [tied to first] - if you change it earlier the dealership can void the warranty.

I was given little room to play with and, well, I didn't have much of a choice.

Comments? :-) Feel free - we are purely discussing information we gathered from various parts..

RI? What do you think about it.. ? [I am going tonight to the dealership again and will show your thoughts to them/reasons/tests results/etc]

*poof*

BAM

Bob W.

your dealer is an idiot, and RTFM.

RI A6

Remember that AoA not Audi of Germany warranties your car. If the engine breaks during the 1st 1200 miles and you have gone excessively over the owners manual limits, that is grounds for denying your warranty. I'm not saying that will happen, only that it can happen.

The RS4 engine produces maximum torque at 5500 rpm, so aggressive break-in even within the owners manual limits will produce the desired results, since maximum combustion chamber pressure is produced at maximum torque. What your service tech didn't tell you is that the transmission and drive train are also breaking in at the same time, and they are operating in an entirely different lubrication regime than the engine. You might want to be a bit more gentle with them, since they are most affected by maximum power, which occurs at 7800 rpm.

As for the factory hammering the engines, that sounds like rumor. However, the MotoMan theory of break-in does not work with this engine and cylinder wall design. We are not dealing with soft iron cylinders here that lap the rings in rather quickly, but rather hard as glass Alusil (a high silicon aluminium alloy) that has been etched back to expose only glass. It takes a very long time to wear this $hit in. (Based on analysis about 8500 miles on the clock.) What you are doing during break-in is to try and get the rings to seat well in their piston guides, to keep blow-by deposits from causing the rings to stick. Those who have done this report that oil consumption goes to near zero rapidly, which is your indication that the rings have worn into the guides well. Personally, I have no problem with someone going hard to redline to do this, and then decelerating, but ... if you do this within the 1st 1200 miles and the engine breaks, you'll be replacing it on your dime. If you keep within the limits, and it breaks, you're safe.

As for oil change, the manual explicitly states that the 1st 5K and subsequent 10K OCI's are the minimum requirements. In fact, they are exactly the same for all Audi's, not just the RS4. The manual then goes on to state that more frequency oil changes may be required for more severe driving conditions. And there is no mention of "special oil". From a warranty standpoint, your dealer has nothing to stand on. You are well within your rights as a consumer to change the oil at any time with an approved oil, as they have not explicitly said not to.

Oil analysis has shown rather conclusively that there is a large amount of wear during the break-in period, and that the oil has been pretty well hammered by 1500 miles. This has been verified by 4 owners thus far, through analysis at Dyson Analysis, who has the most comprehensive experience with this engine. When I see high amounts of silicon and aluminum in the oil analysis from initial wear in the cylinder walls, even at 600 miles, I want to get it out of there, since it is so abrasive

As for the "mystery" factory oil. It is true that the factory does use an oil that is not available on the commercial market. Nothing in any oil analysis has shown that there is anything special, except for a reduced detergent additive package when compared to Audi 802 spec oil. This is consistent with the fact that the oil only has to last 5000 miles.

Finally, this engine by design seems to have a high amount of oil fuel dilution, when compared to other engines. This is probably a result of it being truly a racing design, using direct injection. Fuel is a bad thing to have in the oil, since it will cause increased wear due to acid formation and fast depletion of the oil additive package. We can see wear increase in oil analysis, due to fuel dilution, to a greater extent than any wear seen from pounding the engine. Chaning the oil out early and often is a good thing. Most of us who are getting oil analysis from Dyson are having our oil changed every 3000 miles.

If you plan to keep your car for a few years, or are leasing, by all means use the factory recommended OCIs. But if, like me, you plan on keeping your beast for a while, and want it to hold up beyond the factory warranty, then if I were you, I'd change the oil much more often than the factory recommends.

Finally, I'm not saying that my break-in method and oil change recommendations are the best that can be, however, everyone who has used my method and recommendations is reporting good results, and is seeing good power. In one case, I know of one owner who has now had 2 RS4s. The first he broke in gently. The second he broke in with my method. He now reports a significant difference in has butt dyno results, and has had a factory service tech, who has driven many RS4s, indicate that his car is indeed running strong. Dyno and FATS runs on my car at 11000 miles show that it is making full rated HP.

Bob W.

2:1 odds you're the first one here to blow an engine.

but seriously....racing engines are often torn down and rebuilt every few races, depending on the engine and the race. i don't think you want to do that.

BAM

I will go back to the dealership tonight and let you know the results.

Thank you RI for the added info :-)

BTW - my [still] tamed beast is now at 3,980km - and the engine purrs nicely.. so I believe I crossed the critical momentum [for the first part].

I will update this thread hopefully tonight.. thanks!

*poof*

BAM [me, not the engine!]

tihsyloh

And I agree with a post a saw eairlier about his "methods" which is that you have to take everything on AW with a grain of salt as I have for the past 8 years.

With that said, RI RS4 has some valid points that general automotive engineering back up. His technical knowledge of the engine is far superior to mine (and most of you I am sure) as well as almost any salesman on any Audi lot in North America. He is correct to mention that Audi can certainly track your usage of the engine and use it as a defense to not replace it and his recommendations, although a little aggressive, do fall within the general guidelines set by AoA.

I do not think many of us plan to drive these cars much more than a few years, god knows I haven't ever had a car longer than 3 years. My experience has been that more aggressive break ins do result in faster, smoother engines. Oil changes NEED to be done more than "factory recommended". 10K might be fine for your wife's 3.2 A4, but this is a much different engine and no one here bought a $73,000 car to mindlessly run errands in. We bought these cars to drive the **** out of them and that means you have to take better care of the engine. I lease cars and I generally do oil changes at 1K to get the factory crap out and then every 5K. I buy one, then Audi buys one. I always supply my own oil and I am partial to Mobil1 (yes, synthetic).

Just my two cents.

S4iowa

I'm curious.

IIRC there are 4 levels. I'll have to look them up at home.

jchobby

Thanks for the info. As usual there are different views which is great. I'm going to use the method you did. We are all test pilots in a sense. The dealers appear not to know much about this model, and probubly won't given the number due in the states. I do plan on owning it for a while.

jchobby

Thanks for your view. I will use it.