mixja

I'm currently an Audi RS4 owner, but in the past week I have driven both the M3 Manual and M3 DCT for a couple of hours each time.

First of all, the spec of each car:
- 2007 Audi RS4 Manual, 14000kms, Ceramic Brakes, Sports Suspension Plus, Milltek Downpipes + Exhaust, Wetterauer ECU remap, K&N Filter
- 2008 BMW M3 Coupe M-DCT, 500kms, Stock
- 2008 BMW M3 Sedan Manual, 5000kms, Stock

<b><u>1st Place - M3 DCT</u></b>
DCT adds some much needed character to the new M3 sedan. The DCT increases performance noticeably and is intoxicating when pushing the car and engine to its limits.

I hate to say it, but this transmission has swayed me to the M3 - it is the perfect match for such an amazing power plant.

The shorter ratios made the M3 DCT feel like it was the even of the modified RS4 up to 5000RPM, and once past 5000RPM, the DCT felt quite a bit quicker than the (modified) RS4.

The difference in ratios is clearly demonstrated by BMWs quoted 80-120km/h times - 4.2s for the DCT Coupe and 4.9s for the Manual Coupe (both in 4th gear - incidentally, the RS4 times around 4.0s using the inbuilt lap timer as a stopwatch)

<b><i>Pluses:</i></b>
- DCT transmission - amazing!
- Prodigious top end pull
- Perrfectly balanced chassis
- The fastest of this lot

<b><i>Minuses:</i></b>
- Exterior styling not quite right
- Interior styling more up to date than RS4, but somewhat clinical and sterile
- Doesn't quite have the character of the RS4

<b><u>2nd Place - Audi RS4</u></b>
The RS4 certainly exudes more character than both of its M3 counterparts in terms of exterior and interior styling. The transmission is much better than the M3 manual - gear throw is shorter and notchier, and the clutch is much more solid.

Performance wise, the modified RS4 felt like it had more torque than the M3 manual, and just as much top end pull. Of course without modifications, the M3 manual would be the quicker car, certainly once the tacho needle swings past 6000RPM.

The throttle pedal is much more sensitive on the RS4 than both M3 models, this could be a good thing or bad thing depending on your driving style.

In the handling department, the Sports Suspension Plus option makes the Audi handle quite a bit better than the standard setup, but it still can't match the perfectly balanced M3.

<b><i>Pluses:</i></b>
- Excellent low/mid-range torque
- Still pulls hard up top, just not as hard as the M3
- Tremendous handling considering the V8 mill sits a mile forward of the front axle
- A true muscle car, its roughness around the edges and brutish nature give it a character the M3 can't quite match
- Better all-weather performer

<b><i>Minuses:</i></b>
- In stock form, performance gap to the M3 I feel is too great
- Even modified not as much top end pull as the M3, especially the DCT
- Dated interior, but still more engaging than the M3 interior.

<b><u>3rd Place - M3 Sedan</u></b>
Honestly, I would not buy this car - the transmission, which is so important in any manual performance car, just doesn't cut the mustard. The taller gearing of the manual also reduces some of the excitement of the car -
I find the RS4 much more fun to drive and the M3 DCT, well, out of this world. Really you need a race track to get full enjoyment of the M3's prodigious power band with the manual box - the shorter geared RS4 and M3 DCT have much more enjoyment factor for both urban and country driving.

<b><i>Pluses:</i></b>
- Prodigious top end pull
- Perfectly balanced chassis

<b><i>Minuses:</i></b>
- Manual transmission and clutch a disappointment
- Not as exciting as the others
- Exterior styling not quite right
- Interior styling more up to date than RS4, but somewhat clinical and sterile

April

when leaving off the line briskly, but not floored? When in normal traffic in auto mode with constantly varying throttle inputs, does the gearbox sometimes get confused as to which gear to select next, and leave you with long pauses as it sorts things out? Is there a long pause between reverse and drive, meanwhile the car rolls freely if your foot is not on the brake? Does it shift at redline or can you bounce it off the limiter if need be? At very low speeds in parking lots, does the car hunt, as the clutch engages, then disengages back and forth? When you come to a halt in drive, can you feel the trans downshifting, or just hear it? Can you make totally smooth jerk free stops?

All of these things drive me a little batty about the DSG loaners I get, and actually leave me longing for a conventional automatic (if no manual is available).

Oh, and can neutral be engaged by pulling back both paddles at once? And do the paddles turn with the wheel, or are they fixed on the column?

daveak05

anyway, they said the shifts are sweet, and ultra fast/crisp.

They did say that in full auto mode the transmission seemed to hunt around for the appropriate gear...which is typical of AT's and especially 6 speed AT's.

RS4saloondrivr

After I had it for a couple months I no longer had any of the long pauses and could always get it to choose the proper gear. I also replaced the bushing in the transmission mount with a stiffer bushing and that helped reduce the jerk on take off and stopping significantly. I still prefer manual shift but I can see the day coming in the near future where manuals will no longer be available. DSG when driven properly is definitely faster and more efficient than manual.

April

As an automatic, my old 1994 Alfa 164 is easily as good about being smooth and being in the right gear at all times. The Maserati auto blows the socks off all other automatics (which is what I consider anything that has only 2 pedals).

April

and of course much faster. But it still second guesses wrong too often, isn't as smooth, and is just plain old annoying after a while. As a rabid manual person, I would almost rather have a regular auto. DSG is neither fish nor fowl in that it isn't really as smooth as a normal auto for city use, nor are street cars inherently track-worthy enough out of the box to warrant a racing gearbox that no doubt comes with limitations for street duty.

it's probably the 4th or 5th time I've had a DSG loaner, and of course I test drove the old TT and the current A3 back when I was shopping. I was very excited by DSG when it was introduced, but now upon longer exposure, I don't see it as superior.

daveak05

what is your '94 Alfa, a 4 spd AT?...maybe even a 3 spd?

I think the next generation VW/Audi dual clutch transmission is supposed to address some of those issues. As for BMW's new dual clutch unit, it's more advanced than the DSG, from all that I'm hearing.

daveak05

it has been a common complaint since DSG first came out, that the AT in full auto or even manual mode will not start off in 1st gear much of the time. Audi even addressed it in technical articles, FWIW.

April

are distinctly jerky.

April

a 4 speed. In sport mode it downshifts whenever you brake, meaning it's in a lower gear for corners and coming out of them. The DSG just lugs along through the corner, taking a long time to downshift upon exiting. With all those gears, you'd think it could drop a cog or two upon braking and the accelerometer and steering wheel angle sensor seeing you are cornering.