stanj

Actually, level 2 vs. level 1, since even the cheapest Audi has "normal" cruise control. But that's a detail.

My experience with Audi is that they make almost bombastic statements about features that they bring to the market at a much higher price and far lower sophistication than other manufacturers. Both HUD and DAP are a good example: the Audi HUD is not visible with polarized sunglasses, while GM's is. Yes, I am pretty good at physics so I get the problem - as a consumer, though, I don't give a rat's *** about how GM solved it, they did. I can think of a number of ways to do it.

Second example is DAP: My S4 has it, and I dumped my B8 S4 to a good part due to the much better DAP in the B9. Fast forward a few months, when I got a brand new Nissan Leaf SL with tech package. The tech package is a $650 add-on and gives you ACC and lane assist. Last week I drove the Leaf from San Francisco to my house in San Jose - 101 to 85 basically all the way back to 101 - and the ACC nor the lane keeping didn't disconnect once. That includes the perpetual construction on 101 in Palo Alto where the lanes do really interesting things. In contrast, I can't drive ten miles on either 101 or 85 without the lane keeping system disconnecting. What's worse, with the Audi there's no clear indication that the system disconnected - you have to look at the HUD (which you can't see with polarized sunglasses) or the dash. Contrast that with the Leaf, there's a clear ding-dong when than happens. Not only does Audi have an inferior system, but I would argue because it doesn't tell you when it disengages, it's actually more dangerous than helpful. My suspicion is that Audi didn't add a ding-dong because it would be going off constantly.

This is not about the Leaf being the better car than the S4, even though I am already prepared to hear "why don't you go embrace your ugly Leaf, then." My point is that Audi constantly present themselves as the cutting edge in technology, loudly touting their newest gadgets, at very high prices - at the same time there are others where the same feature costs just a fraction and performs far better (and safer).

Other than the tranny, the DAP (specifically lane keeping) are the biggest disappointment for me - because I know what is possible at a fraction of the price, while still maintaining (or even improving) safety.

markcincinnati

How did GM overcome the polarized HUD issue?

I wanted the S4 with HUD and I knew -- in advance -- it would not work with polarized sunglasses, so when I ordered the S4, I bought new, non-polarized sunglasses, since I can't see so many "digital" readouts (not just the HUD). When I get gas as any station that has the "new" pumps, the screen's instructions and the meters showing the progress are only visible if I tilt my head 45 to 90 degrees (which really looks stupid).

If tech exists that polarized glasses "see" my vote would be for all these screens and devices to adopt it. Audi, I assume, "should" have known about this tech.

The points you make about the DAP, too, are undoubtedly true and troublesome -- unfortunately, since I only have the Audi system, I have nothing to compare it with, and I've been happy with DAP.

All of the Premium cars do seem to stick it to customers regarding the prices they charge for such things -- Mercedes and Porsche seem even moreso than Audi. Whenever I configure an Audi, I typically configure a similar vehicle from the competition and Audi usually seems to come in at a lower MSRP. Only Volvo seems to be less money for "comparable" vehicles. Of course, the discounts on Cadillac's does offset the higher MSRP numbers, but the discounts can't be 100% assured, so I am speaking of MSRP.

I had, for a week, a 2018 Nissan Altima (4,000 miles on it) when my car was in the body shop. This car had a lot of features on it, but overall it was in a decidedly non-premium package -- and the seats sucked. So, was the S4 worth $30K more? Not in terms of what must be the actual costs for the components -- but, in terms of the overall experience, the Premium car does offer a premium experience. Its value is, apparently, determined by the market. If "we" all stopped buying S4's and, instead, bought Nissans or Volvos or Genesis cars, perhaps the prices would drop for Audis (or perhaps they would ignore the market at their peril).

It seems to me that if BMW would cut the price of their cars by 15%, Audi might follow suit. None of these Premium guys is likely to drop the prices of their cars because of something done by Honda or Nissan or KIA, etc.

My neighbor has a new Ford Taurus SHO apparently optioned to the max -- it is very nice and a lot less than an Audi A6. I assume that he never cross shopped the two. For all I know his SHO's DAP is superior to ours; he says he rarely uses it (and he didn't say why).

The price of Premium-ness.

benz240

rccoleman

There's a thread about polarized sunglasses and the HUD here. In short, HUDs work by projecting an image on the windshield, and the reflection is necessarily polarized in exactly the same way as the glare that polarized sunglasses are designed to eliminate. Changing anything about the image that's being projected won't help because the properties of the reflection remain the same. The only way to address this would be to put an actual display up there that you look at directly (no projection/reflection), but then it wouldn't be a HUD.

markcincinnati

What does GM do to theirs that makes it OK to wear polarized sunglasses?

rccoleman

Is there any evidence that it's actually better? Depending on the quality of the sunglasses, all the polarization may do is make the HUD dimmer and the "fix" is to increase the brightness. Physics dictates that the HUD display will always be affected by vertically polarized sunglasses that intentionally block horizontally polarized light. Sunglasses that are polarized in some other plane will improve HUD visibility, but also won't be as effective at reducing the glare that you originally bought them for.

markcincinnati

I test drove a Q7 with the HUD when I had polarized sunglasses -- I could see the HUD, but it seemed way too dim when I was wearing the SG's. So, I needed new glasses anyway and I got the prescription Ray Ban's without the polarization. Actually, for driving, I've found them better overall because there isn't that shift from dark to light to dark and so on. I did have my S4 tinted (40%) which is a relatively mild tint and that helped, too. My wife had the windshield tinted (20%) and that was damn near an epiphany. I had almost always gone with the polarized SG's for years and it simply had never occurred to me to get non-polarized SG's.

This is not intended to be a "defense of Audi" (or any mfgr), however. If GM truly has the secret sauce that allows such sunglasses to be worn without making the HUD look overly dim, I wish they would share it. But, frankly, it doesn't seem like anyone has yet fully explained how GM's HUD is immune to the effect of polarized sg's.

I'm far more interested in Audi allowing "the sky's the limit" choice of WHAT can put on the HUD's real estate. My HUD shows, by default, the sign recognition, and speed that I am traveling, period. When the nav is engaged, there's that and for a moment, the HUD shows the ACC's "current" limit when the traffic sign changes. I'd like the screen to have what is displayed selectable from the MMI. If the practical/aesthetic limit would be "7" data points, the MMI should allow 7 to be selected and then when #8 was desired, the driver would have to decide which one of the 7 would have to be deselected before the next data point could be added. I'd like, for instance, to see the turn signal indicator arrow displayed. Some people may want to clutter it up with the fuel level and if that's what they want, it should be made "selectable" -- some of us might like to see the RPM's or the boost line or high-beam indicator or climate control setting (or outside temp for that matter). The point is, my wish is that Audi would allow us to choose what is displayed on the HUD.

I have no concern, really, about the polarization -- but if we could have the HUD work with such glasses, well, that would, from a marketing perspective be great.

tuxdude

I don't have an Audi (yet at least), but from what I've researched so far it is merely based on the orientation of the HUD polarizer since Audi uses a linear polarizer for the HUD. If you use a linear version of polarizer and the orientation of the HUD polarizer and the polarizing sun glasses cross, the display essentially gets blacked out. You can fix this by changing the orientation of either the HUD polarization or the sunglasses polarization.

An alternate way to fix this by changing the type of polarization from linear to Circular. The polarization angle is 45 degrees with a Circular polarizer and all polarized sunglasses will work with this technique. Either you could buy sunglasses which are circular polarized or Audi can switch their HUD to be circular polarized (I believe this is expensive and Audi might have taken the cheaper route here).

mplsbrian

Tameautumn

this seems like a good review on how annoying DAP can be ... I expect this may be especially so on narrow UK "B" roads

2017 Audi A4 2.0T Quattro S tronic Review | Car Reviews and news at CarReview.com

BR

TameAutumn