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More reasons to NOT have ultra-low-profile tires. 40 series is already marginal in that respect, but 35 series is IMHO begging for tire and wheel damage. Now, in a lot of places in Germany, super smooth roads and almost fanatical maintenance are the norm.
Some of the suburbs (around Cincinnati) have good roads, few have very good and fewer still great.
Any further comments I can make have to do with choices of where to spend $2,000,000,000 PER WEEK. The thing is, I don't even know if I know enough to judge if we're "getting out money's" worth -- aside from this forum not being the place to digress so wildly.
My wish, however, would be for our Interstates, highways, roads and streets to be commensurate with our status as THE WORLD'S ONE LONE SUPER-POWER. I'd like to have SUPER-ROADS that is.
Some of my friends who certainly have the means, won't buy "anything nice" (with respect to cars) since they feel our highway infrastructure, simply put, "hurts cars."
My neighbor -- one of the ones with the means -- went from Porsches to Mercedes (he keeps his Merc in the garage 99% of the time) to Hyundai. He drives to Wilmington, OH from Cincinnati everyday -- 40 miles, one-way. Says hurting a $115,000 car (on our roads) is about as smart as using paper currency as kindling for his fireplace.
Whenever we go out as a foursome we take his GMC Yukon -- which is quite nice, although whale-sized. It too can take a lickin' and keep on. . . you know.
Despite all of this bitchin' and moanin', I've thoroughly enjoyed my S4 these past 43 months (18" wheels with Conti Extreme DWS 06's). Had to have a few all-wheel alignments, but otherwise, managed to get out pretty much unscathed.
Forgot to mention -- I had the 19" wheels on my 2012 Acura TL SH-AWD "Advance" (Acura's version of Prestige). Bent three of the wheels within the first 15 months (of about 24 months, that I kept it). Acura gave me a 50% "implied warranty" credit for the wheels (which cost a fortune), but I still had to 100% pay for the new tires.
Again, damn lower than needed profile tires -- because "we're all slaves to fashion!" insofar as cars are concerned.
I completely understand now. I too have a TL with the 19" rims and so far have avoided any damage over the past 30K, so who knows, maybe I will be able to keep that going with the 19's on the S5 (fingers crossed)....
One, hopefully last, point of clarification -- I am NOT against 19" or larger WHEELS -- I have become -- I think -- a more informed consumer.
Aspect ratios (and we're talking about tires) less than 45 tend to invite "issues" when driving on our mortar cratered Interstate and state roads.
Can lower profile tires -- with appropriately stiff sidewalls and aggressive tread patterns and super soft (super sticky) compounds -- improve handling? Hell yes.
But, if you contextualize that question to include that you mean "on the roads the public roads we typically and usually drive upon," the answer would be more accurate if stated: Under certain circumstances, hell yes. Then the circumstances would have to be described -- which would certainly have to have "clauses" that would warn as to the possible side effects of driving a very low profile tire on a pot hole riddled highway infrastructure called "US roads." Those side effects might include, tire damage, wheel damage, constipation and diarrhea.
I'd be fine if Audi could have figured out how to come out with 19" wheels and mount 40 series tires on them. Of course they could figure out how to come out with such a combination. They choose not to, probably something to do with MONEY -- for the life of me, I can't figure out why they "punish" the folks willing to dole out another $1000 or $800 for "optional" wheels and tires.
So, let me get this straight, Audi, you will sell me wheels and tires that are vulnerable to the very roads they will encounter, have a shorter tread life and can only be used in temperatures above 45 degrees Fahrenheit -- plus not only do they not last very long, they cost more, to boot?
Where do I sign?
Last edited by markcincinnati; 04-21-2017 at 05:21 PM.
It sounds like the main issue is with the tires themselves. I see plenty of options for 245/40/19 and 245/45/19 on Tirerack. While that changes the rolling circumference with the 19" wheels, it solves your main concerns. Maybe Audi offers the 19s with the 35 aspect ratio in order to preserve the same circumference as the 18s?
Of course, maintaining the circumference is the goal -- several systems rely on an "assumed" circumference. I imagine such things as the engine management computer, perhaps the ABS and ESP systems as well as the speed measurement itself rely on input received from sensors in the axle assembly. Perhaps, too, there is a styling component to this, in that with shorter sidewalls, the wheel appears even larger.
Finally, for those who may or will contend that a 35 series tire improves handling: You're Right!
Gone are the days of 75 series tires -- if you're old enough to remember them, there was a time when the announcement of 70 series (Wide Oval) tires was touted as a huge step forward in the quest for sharper turn-in and what my wife calls the pursuit of cars that "handle like a snake in a rat hole."
Time and technology have allowed tire mfgrs to produce reliable and ever stiffer sidewalls. With each advancement in sidewall stiffness, aspect ratios continued to lower. When we reached the capability to produce 50 series tires, there were reports gushing about the handling advancements offered by these damn near miracles of tire technology. I think it was stated that these tires actually were able to violate the immutable laws of physics.
Moving right along, we quickly moved to 45, 40, 35 and even 20 series tires which looked almost as if they were painted on the wheels.
Imagine how much better a 20 series tire performs than a 75 series.
Imagine it, because if you really do go below 35 series -- and, for my money below 40 series -- and drive on American roads, you do so at your own peril: such tires on pot hole riddled streets and frost heaved and patched and re-patched cracks are kidney busters, likely VERY noisy and also likely to have a four figure effective lifespan (that is 9,999 miles or less) -- plus they will cost as much as a house payment.
However, during their short lifespans, if they are driven on undamaged surfaces, they will handle (and probably look) great. They will start to feel a "bit off" once the temp drops below 50, more off below 45 and drive at your own risk below 35F.
The issue is not that these ultra low profile tires with a "MAX Performance" rating don't deliver the performance goods, the issue is that the incremental performance difference between a 40 series and a 35 series aspect ratio MAX performance summer-only tire is virtually immaterial in the circumstances and environment we, as a practical matter, are forced to endure.
What is not immaterial is customer satisfaction -- and it's not me saying this it is the dealers and their service departments who have to explain to customers why their new quattro handles like crap starting before Thanksgiving and really goes to hell before Christmas. Moreover, service departments are frequently on the receiving end of "outraged" customers when they're told their 2017 S3 needs a new $1,500 wheel and two new $275 tires plus a four wheel alignment and a new tie rod end -- and that these expenses are not covered under the Audi Advantage or the bumper to bumper warranty any more than a fender bender is covered.
I pity the service advisers come the first frost.
It's no wonder most dealer inventory is equipped with the all-season tire option (which is no charge but does include a speed limiter of 130MPH, rather than the unfettered speed allowed if the summer only tire option (also no charge) is selected.)
Audi has even allowed for a new top-spec A6 to be ordered with BOTH the sport suspension and the 19" wheel upgrade WITH ALL SEASON tires. Then, for reasons I can't fathom or even figure out, the customer who opts for this combination is not given the current state of the art All Season tires from Continental, Pirelli or Michelin. The top spec A/S tires from these companies, and others, are typically W rated Ultra High Performance models. Not MAX Performance, but so much better than the H rated grand touring tires Audi provides to customers unwilling to opt for the summer only tires.
It seems to me, those of us who buy a $60,000+ S4 Prestige must either take summer only tires (with all of the issues that accompany them on our crappy roads) or "Grand Touring" tires -- which, if you asked me, is a euphemism for "Bland Touring."
It seems a crime to get a new S4 -- if you live North of the Mason Dixon -- and be saddled with "little old gentleman or little old lady" tires if you tick the all-season box.
It's an S4 for pity's sake, Americans don't like to change tires twice per year, Americans like year round rubber (unless they live even further north where winter tires are an absolute necessity) -- folks who buy S4's ought to have the ability to select Ultra High Performance 40 series W rated tires. It's like there is a disconnect between Audi of America and Audi AG in Germany.
Who, in the wide wide world of sports, chose H rated Grand Touring tires for an S4?
Hello, is this thing on?
Last edited by markcincinnati; 04-22-2017 at 09:50 AM.
...
It seems to me, those of us who buy a $60,000+ S4 Prestige must either take summer only tires (with all of the issues that accompany them on our crappy roads) or "Grand Touring" tires -- which, if you asked me, is a euphemism for "Bland Touring."
It seems a crime to get a new S4 -- if you live North of the Mason Dixon -- and be saddled with "little old gentleman or little old lady" tires if you tick the all-season box.
It's an S4 for pity's sake, Americans don't like to change tires twice per year, Americans like year round rubber (unless they live even further north where winter tires are an absolute necessity) -- folks who buy S4's ought to have the ability to select Ultra High Performance 40 series W rated tires. It's like there is a disconnect between Audi of America and Audi AG in Germany.
Who, in the wide wide world of sports, chose H rated Grand Touring tires for an S4?...
I completely agree.
As you know I ordered my S5 with the 19's and plan on waiting to see how it handles once we get into the Oregon winter (we go some winters with no snow at all but do see temps below 40F). If it becomes a problem it wouldn't be too hard to order a set of 18" wheels and studless snow tires already mounted and balanced that I could switch out at home in the garage when winter hits.
Although all of this might be a moot point since like you point out the summer tires might wear out before winter hits and then I would replace them with the Continental Extreme Contact DWS 06 all season tires or the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ all season tires.
04-21-2017, 12:53 PM
