Drive Select Questions
07-20-2018, 10:40 AM
#21
Since I have noticed there are some who are posting here who are relatively new (fewer than 100 posts, for instance) to Audiworld, I think it might behoove me to point out that there are folks (like superswiss and me) who have been posting for a decade or more and have posted thousands of times. We (the "super users") probably have had, between us hundreds, more likely thousands of Audis (I've had 33). Even some super users who have only had 10 or so Audis over the years probably have had BMW's, Porsches, Mercedes, and other European (and possibly Japanese and maybe even Korean, when you consider the Stinger) cars. Some of us (well, me) test drive cars (Audis, primarily) as -- I hate to say it -- a hobby. My long-term dealer gets an RS5 in and calls me to say "The new RS5 will be PDI'd by 2 this afternoon, wanna come a try it out for an hour or so?" I've never driven an R8, but our dealer never has more than one or two of them at a time and they always seem to be "ordered" cars and I sure as hell have no intention of ordering one just to be able to drive it.
The point is, I'm telling you that my S4, when driven in D is an "underwhelming" performer IN MY OPINION. I'm sure an S4 driven in D with everything set to full Auto mode is, compared to most cars on the road, hardly a "dog." It's just that I've had so many of these cars and drive even more of them that I don't own that I get jaundiced (not literally of course). By that I mean, there are MANY fine cars to be had once you cross, say, $60,000/MSRP. And, of course, they're not all Audis (but you probably already figured that out.) I dare say if you went with a like priced BMW or Mercedes you'd get a fine car for your bucks. BTW, we've also had -- in addition to the 33 Audis, 3 BMWs and an Acura and an Infiniti. We're somewhat well-rounded in our experience. I've been to Ingostadt 6 times and through the Audi driving school in Austria 4 times and the BMW X-drive school here in the US (SC) once. My wife's been on the full-day Porsche+Audi experience with 49 men (1 women of 50 participants), too.
So, although I generally am telling you stuff that I believe to be true and accurate, what I may not be saying is after I say whatever it is that I'm trying to convince you of, "for me." So, the Audi S4 driven in D is a dog, for me, from my perspective, based on my experience, etc., etc. I do (and am) inviting you to drive the car in S for a full week, no switching back and forth, in S then trying D again (or vice versa). I believe you will find the S4 with the Tiptronic will be more responsive, quicker, and all around more fun-to-drive when driven in S than in D -- based on my experience, based on MY, etc, etc, I don't know and don't speak for, for example, superswiss, he may feel the same way, he may not. I don't know, but I read his posts and I would assume he would prefer the feeling of the car when driven in S. But, then again, I think he drives a V8 RS5 for chrissakes. So, perhaps, just perhaps, he hasn't had 15,000+ miles seat time in a 2018 S4. If I'm wrong and he thinks D stands for Dandy, that is probably correct, from his perspective, base on his experience, etc.
So, to repeat, if you're a newer user/participant of this forum, there are a lot of super users and a lot of opinionated people here participating -- fortunately that is just what I've heard, I don't actually know any "opinionated" people here.
You've come to the right place, however, for a tsunami of trivial Audi facts, that much is certain.
I remain, your humble contributor in Cincinnati and am "Often wrong, but NEVER uncertain."
The point is, I'm telling you that my S4, when driven in D is an "underwhelming" performer IN MY OPINION. I'm sure an S4 driven in D with everything set to full Auto mode is, compared to most cars on the road, hardly a "dog." It's just that I've had so many of these cars and drive even more of them that I don't own that I get jaundiced (not literally of course). By that I mean, there are MANY fine cars to be had once you cross, say, $60,000/MSRP. And, of course, they're not all Audis (but you probably already figured that out.) I dare say if you went with a like priced BMW or Mercedes you'd get a fine car for your bucks. BTW, we've also had -- in addition to the 33 Audis, 3 BMWs and an Acura and an Infiniti. We're somewhat well-rounded in our experience. I've been to Ingostadt 6 times and through the Audi driving school in Austria 4 times and the BMW X-drive school here in the US (SC) once. My wife's been on the full-day Porsche+Audi experience with 49 men (1 women of 50 participants), too.
So, although I generally am telling you stuff that I believe to be true and accurate, what I may not be saying is after I say whatever it is that I'm trying to convince you of, "for me." So, the Audi S4 driven in D is a dog, for me, from my perspective, based on my experience, etc., etc. I do (and am) inviting you to drive the car in S for a full week, no switching back and forth, in S then trying D again (or vice versa). I believe you will find the S4 with the Tiptronic will be more responsive, quicker, and all around more fun-to-drive when driven in S than in D -- based on my experience, based on MY, etc, etc, I don't know and don't speak for, for example, superswiss, he may feel the same way, he may not. I don't know, but I read his posts and I would assume he would prefer the feeling of the car when driven in S. But, then again, I think he drives a V8 RS5 for chrissakes. So, perhaps, just perhaps, he hasn't had 15,000+ miles seat time in a 2018 S4. If I'm wrong and he thinks D stands for Dandy, that is probably correct, from his perspective, base on his experience, etc.
So, to repeat, if you're a newer user/participant of this forum, there are a lot of super users and a lot of opinionated people here participating -- fortunately that is just what I've heard, I don't actually know any "opinionated" people here.
You've come to the right place, however, for a tsunami of trivial Audi facts, that much is certain.
I remain, your humble contributor in Cincinnati and am "Often wrong, but NEVER uncertain."
Last edited by markcincinnati; 07-20-2018 at 10:44 AM.
07-20-2018, 10:56 AM
#22
AudiWorld Super User
Since I have noticed there are some who are posting here who are relatively new (fewer than 100 posts, for instance) to Audiworld, I think it might behoove me to point out that there are folks (like superswiss and me) who have been posting for a decade or more and have posted thousands of times. We (the "super users") probably have had, between us hundreds, more likely thousands of Audis (I've had 33). Even some super users who have only had 10 or so Audis over the years probably have had BMW's, Porsches, Mercedes, and other European (and possibly Japanese and maybe even Korean, when you consider the Stinger) cars. Some of us (well, me) test drive cars (Audis, primarily) as -- I hate to say it -- a hobby. My long-term dealer gets an RS5 in and calls me to say "The new RS5 will be PDI'd by 2 this afternoon, wanna come a try it out for an hour or so?" I've never driven an R8, but our dealer never has more than one or two of them at a time and they always seem to be "ordered" cars and I sure as hell have no intention of ordering one just to be able to drive it.
The point is, I'm telling you that my S4, when driven in D is an "underwhelming" performer IN MY OPINION. I'm sure an S4 driven in D with everything set to full Auto mode is, compared to most cars on the road, hardly a "dog." It's just that I've had so many of these cars and drive even more of them that I don't own that I get jaundiced (not literally of course). By that I mean, there are MANY fine cars to be had once you cross, say, $60,000/MSRP. And, of course, they're not all Audis (but you probably already figured that out.) I dare say if you went with a like priced BMW or Mercedes you'd get a fine car for your bucks. BTW, we've also had -- in addition to the 33 Audis, 3 BMWs and an Acura and an Infiniti. We're somewhat well-rounded in our experience. I've been to Ingostadt 6 times and through the Audi driving school in Austria 4 times and the BMW X-drive school here in the US (SC) once. My wife's been on the full-day Porsche+Audi experience with 49 men (1 women of 50 participants), too.
So, although I generally am telling you stuff that I believe to be true and accurate, what I may not be saying is after I say whatever it is that I'm trying to convince you of, "for me." So, the Audi S4 driven in D is a dog, for me, from my perspective, based on my experience, etc., etc. I do (and am) inviting you to drive the car in S for a full week, no switching back and forth, in S then trying D again (or vice versa). I believe you will find the S4 with the Tiptronic will be more responsive, quicker, and all around more fun-to-drive when driven in S than in D -- based on my experience, based on MY, etc, etc, I don't know and don't speak for, for example, superswiss, he may feel the same way, he may not. I don't know, but I read his posts and I would assume he would prefer the feeling of the car when driven in S. But, then again, I think he drives a V8 RS5 for chrissakes. So, perhaps, just perhaps, he hasn't had 15,000+ miles seat time in a 2018 S4. If I'm wrong and he thinks D stands for Dandy, that is probably correct, from his perspective, base on his experience, etc.
So, to repeat, if you're a newer user/participant of this forum, there are a lot of super users and a lot of opinionated people here participating -- fortunately that is just what I've heard, I don't actually know any "opinionated" people here.
You've come to the right place, however, for a tsunami of trivial Audi facts, that much is certain.
I remain, your humble contributor in Cincinnati and am "Often wrong, but NEVER uncertain."
The point is, I'm telling you that my S4, when driven in D is an "underwhelming" performer IN MY OPINION. I'm sure an S4 driven in D with everything set to full Auto mode is, compared to most cars on the road, hardly a "dog." It's just that I've had so many of these cars and drive even more of them that I don't own that I get jaundiced (not literally of course). By that I mean, there are MANY fine cars to be had once you cross, say, $60,000/MSRP. And, of course, they're not all Audis (but you probably already figured that out.) I dare say if you went with a like priced BMW or Mercedes you'd get a fine car for your bucks. BTW, we've also had -- in addition to the 33 Audis, 3 BMWs and an Acura and an Infiniti. We're somewhat well-rounded in our experience. I've been to Ingostadt 6 times and through the Audi driving school in Austria 4 times and the BMW X-drive school here in the US (SC) once. My wife's been on the full-day Porsche+Audi experience with 49 men (1 women of 50 participants), too.
So, although I generally am telling you stuff that I believe to be true and accurate, what I may not be saying is after I say whatever it is that I'm trying to convince you of, "for me." So, the Audi S4 driven in D is a dog, for me, from my perspective, based on my experience, etc., etc. I do (and am) inviting you to drive the car in S for a full week, no switching back and forth, in S then trying D again (or vice versa). I believe you will find the S4 with the Tiptronic will be more responsive, quicker, and all around more fun-to-drive when driven in S than in D -- based on my experience, based on MY, etc, etc, I don't know and don't speak for, for example, superswiss, he may feel the same way, he may not. I don't know, but I read his posts and I would assume he would prefer the feeling of the car when driven in S. But, then again, I think he drives a V8 RS5 for chrissakes. So, perhaps, just perhaps, he hasn't had 15,000+ miles seat time in a 2018 S4. If I'm wrong and he thinks D stands for Dandy, that is probably correct, from his perspective, base on his experience, etc.
So, to repeat, if you're a newer user/participant of this forum, there are a lot of super users and a lot of opinionated people here participating -- fortunately that is just what I've heard, I don't actually know any "opinionated" people here.
You've come to the right place, however, for a tsunami of trivial Audi facts, that much is certain.
I remain, your humble contributor in Cincinnati and am "Often wrong, but NEVER uncertain."
so let me make a different point. There's a lot of D vs S and complaining about D going on, but as far as I'm concerned I drive these cars in M or MS most of the time. D/S are for convenience when I can't or don't want to shift for myself. Ultimately as good as automatic transmissions have become, they cannot yet read the driver's mind or look down the street and know the next maneuver I'm most likely going to make, so ultimately if you really and truly wanna drive these cars and have the ultimate response the way you envision it in your head, it's M/MS or nothing.
07-20-2018, 11:24 AM
#23
AudiWorld Member
Since I have noticed there are some who are posting here who are relatively new (fewer than 100 posts, for instance) to Audiworld, I think it might behoove me to point out that there are folks (like superswiss and me) who have been posting for a decade or more and have posted thousands of times. We (the "super users") probably have had, between us hundreds, more likely thousands of Audis (I've had 33). Even some super users who have only had 10 or so Audis over the years probably have had BMW's, Porsches, Mercedes, and other European (and possibly Japanese and maybe even Korean, when you consider the Stinger) cars. Some of us (well, me) test drive cars (Audis, primarily) as -- I hate to say it -- a hobby. My long-term dealer gets an RS5 in and calls me to say "The new RS5 will be PDI'd by 2 this afternoon, wanna come a try it out for an hour or so?" I've never driven an R8, but our dealer never has more than one or two of them at a time and they always seem to be "ordered" cars and I sure as hell have no intention of ordering one just to be able to drive it.
The point is, I'm telling you that my S4, when driven in D is an "underwhelming" performer IN MY OPINION. I'm sure an S4 driven in D with everything set to full Auto mode is, compared to most cars on the road, hardly a "dog." It's just that I've had so many of these cars and drive even more of them that I don't own that I get jaundiced (not literally of course). By that I mean, there are MANY fine cars to be had once you cross, say, $60,000/MSRP. And, of course, they're not all Audis (but you probably already figured that out.) I dare say if you went with a like priced BMW or Mercedes you'd get a fine car for your bucks. BTW, we've also had -- in addition to the 33 Audis, 3 BMWs and an Acura and an Infiniti. We're somewhat well-rounded in our experience. I've been to Ingostadt 6 times and through the Audi driving school in Austria 4 times and the BMW X-drive school here in the US (SC) once. My wife's been on the full-day Porsche+Audi experience with 49 men (1 women of 50 participants), too.
So, although I generally am telling you stuff that I believe to be true and accurate, what I may not be saying is after I say whatever it is that I'm trying to convince you of, "for me." So, the Audi S4 driven in D is a dog, for me, from my perspective, based on my experience, etc., etc. I do (and am) inviting you to drive the car in S for a full week, no switching back and forth, in S then trying D again (or vice versa). I believe you will find the S4 with the Tiptronic will be more responsive, quicker, and all around more fun-to-drive when driven in S than in D -- based on my experience, based on MY, etc, etc, I don't know and don't speak for, for example, superswiss, he may feel the same way, he may not. I don't know, but I read his posts and I would assume he would prefer the feeling of the car when driven in S. But, then again, I think he drives a V8 RS5 for chrissakes. So, perhaps, just perhaps, he hasn't had 15,000+ miles seat time in a 2018 S4. If I'm wrong and he thinks D stands for Dandy, that is probably correct, from his perspective, base on his experience, etc.
So, to repeat, if you're a newer user/participant of this forum, there are a lot of super users and a lot of opinionated people here participating -- fortunately that is just what I've heard, I don't actually know any "opinionated" people here.
You've come to the right place, however, for a tsunami of trivial Audi facts, that much is certain.
I remain, your humble contributor in Cincinnati and am "Often wrong, but NEVER uncertain."
The point is, I'm telling you that my S4, when driven in D is an "underwhelming" performer IN MY OPINION. I'm sure an S4 driven in D with everything set to full Auto mode is, compared to most cars on the road, hardly a "dog." It's just that I've had so many of these cars and drive even more of them that I don't own that I get jaundiced (not literally of course). By that I mean, there are MANY fine cars to be had once you cross, say, $60,000/MSRP. And, of course, they're not all Audis (but you probably already figured that out.) I dare say if you went with a like priced BMW or Mercedes you'd get a fine car for your bucks. BTW, we've also had -- in addition to the 33 Audis, 3 BMWs and an Acura and an Infiniti. We're somewhat well-rounded in our experience. I've been to Ingostadt 6 times and through the Audi driving school in Austria 4 times and the BMW X-drive school here in the US (SC) once. My wife's been on the full-day Porsche+Audi experience with 49 men (1 women of 50 participants), too.
So, although I generally am telling you stuff that I believe to be true and accurate, what I may not be saying is after I say whatever it is that I'm trying to convince you of, "for me." So, the Audi S4 driven in D is a dog, for me, from my perspective, based on my experience, etc., etc. I do (and am) inviting you to drive the car in S for a full week, no switching back and forth, in S then trying D again (or vice versa). I believe you will find the S4 with the Tiptronic will be more responsive, quicker, and all around more fun-to-drive when driven in S than in D -- based on my experience, based on MY, etc, etc, I don't know and don't speak for, for example, superswiss, he may feel the same way, he may not. I don't know, but I read his posts and I would assume he would prefer the feeling of the car when driven in S. But, then again, I think he drives a V8 RS5 for chrissakes. So, perhaps, just perhaps, he hasn't had 15,000+ miles seat time in a 2018 S4. If I'm wrong and he thinks D stands for Dandy, that is probably correct, from his perspective, base on his experience, etc.
So, to repeat, if you're a newer user/participant of this forum, there are a lot of super users and a lot of opinionated people here participating -- fortunately that is just what I've heard, I don't actually know any "opinionated" people here.
You've come to the right place, however, for a tsunami of trivial Audi facts, that much is certain.
I remain, your humble contributor in Cincinnati and am "Often wrong, but NEVER uncertain."
IMHO
07-20-2018, 11:28 AM
#24
I'm not sure about my role in this post, but my name is mentioned so let me make a different point. There's a lot of D vs S and complaining about D going on, but as far as I'm concerned I drive these cars in M or MS most of the time. D/S are for convenience when I can't or don't want to shift for myself. Ultimately as good as automatic transmissions have become, they cannot yet read the driver's mind or look down the street and know the next maneuver I'm most likely going to make, so ultimately if you really and truly wanna drive these cars and have the ultimate response the way you envision it in your head, it's M/MS or nothing.
so let me make a different point. There's a lot of D vs S and complaining about D going on, but as far as I'm concerned I drive these cars in M or MS most of the time. D/S are for convenience when I can't or don't want to shift for myself. Ultimately as good as automatic transmissions have become, they cannot yet read the driver's mind or look down the street and know the next maneuver I'm most likely going to make, so ultimately if you really and truly wanna drive these cars and have the ultimate response the way you envision it in your head, it's M/MS or nothing.I have a question. When you do drive the car as a fully automatic appliance, do you choose D or S or does this happen so seldom, you just go with whatever it goes into when you pull the lever?
When I want to have "maximum" control and fun, I go for M -- unfortunately, that is probably about 2.5% of the time, here in the city of s-l-o-w moving traffic.
Mark
07-20-2018, 12:13 PM
#25
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One of the benefits of having so little experience with nice cars is that I am pretty happy with D. I took it out today solely in S for 20 minutes, and I sure see the difference, but D is fine for me most of the time.
07-20-2018, 12:36 PM
#26
AudiWorld Senior Member
Since I've been part of the 'D' vs 'S' debate in other threads, let me just add my 2 cents...
I'm a strong proponent of "drive it in S" mode like Mark is. Have been since trading in the manual transmission for the DSG when I bought my B8 S4 in 2012. Was the same way when I bought the S5 last year. However, lately I do find myself using "D" mode more often and learning how to live with it. It's still a bit of a dog and still has a non linear throttle response at tip in, BUT, in certain driving situations it works just fine. The trick to 'D' mode is you have to get on the throttle slowly and smoothly and let the car get moving before asking for more acceleration. Once you hit about 10mph the throttle responds nearly as quickly as it does when in 'S' mode. Same goes for highway passing - it won't react to a sharp stab on the throttle, but if you feather it in a bit you can still accelerate to passing speeds quite easily. It's a bit more of a proactive approach.
There are still one driving situation where I can't find a way to live with 'D' however, and that's when cruising a 50mph country road near me that is on a slight incline. At that speed the engine wants to turn at just about 2000 rpm and the transmission really resists downshifting. With the extra load on the engine from the incline it almost feels like the car is loosing power and wants to slow down even if the throttle input is constant. Those are the times where I still feel the need to flip the stick back to 'S'.
I'm a strong proponent of "drive it in S" mode like Mark is. Have been since trading in the manual transmission for the DSG when I bought my B8 S4 in 2012. Was the same way when I bought the S5 last year. However, lately I do find myself using "D" mode more often and learning how to live with it. It's still a bit of a dog and still has a non linear throttle response at tip in, BUT, in certain driving situations it works just fine. The trick to 'D' mode is you have to get on the throttle slowly and smoothly and let the car get moving before asking for more acceleration. Once you hit about 10mph the throttle responds nearly as quickly as it does when in 'S' mode. Same goes for highway passing - it won't react to a sharp stab on the throttle, but if you feather it in a bit you can still accelerate to passing speeds quite easily. It's a bit more of a proactive approach.
There are still one driving situation where I can't find a way to live with 'D' however, and that's when cruising a 50mph country road near me that is on a slight incline. At that speed the engine wants to turn at just about 2000 rpm and the transmission really resists downshifting. With the extra load on the engine from the incline it almost feels like the car is loosing power and wants to slow down even if the throttle input is constant. Those are the times where I still feel the need to flip the stick back to 'S'.
07-20-2018, 01:16 PM
#27
AudiWorld Super User
Super:
I have a question. When you do drive the car as a fully automatic appliance, do you choose D or S or does this happen so seldom, you just go with whatever it goes into when you pull the lever?
When I want to have "maximum" control and fun, I go for M -- unfortunately, that is probably about 2.5% of the time, here in the city of s-l-o-w moving traffic.
Mark
I have a question. When you do drive the car as a fully automatic appliance, do you choose D or S or does this happen so seldom, you just go with whatever it goes into when you pull the lever?
When I want to have "maximum" control and fun, I go for M -- unfortunately, that is probably about 2.5% of the time, here in the city of s-l-o-w moving traffic.
Mark
I use S very very rarely. The Audis I typically drive have at least an R in the badge
and S in those cars tends to be less suited for just normal driving. S has become softer with the current generation, but in my V8 RS5 and the R8, S for normal driving is only fun if you like to be beaten up. So, I generally only use S for high speed passing and primarily to avoid having to pay attention to the revs and avoid running into the rev limiter. As you might know R(S) vehicles do not automatically upshift in M (Dynamic mode only with the newer models) and I've had a few too many close calls while passing on rural 2-lane highways and inadvertently running into the rev limiter. The thing about D is that you have to use it for a while for the transmission to adapt to your driving style and you also have to learn how to drive it. The above post makes a good point. Smooth throttle input is the key.Most of my driving life has been with manual transmissions, so that continuous to be in my blood, but I don't really have a desire to go back. The dual clutch transmission has won me over. It's the best of both worlds. Mechanically it's still a manual transmission under hood, so it has many of the same things that I like such as crisp shifts and a solid mechanical connection between engine and drivetrain. The dual clutch transmission technically belongs to a separate category often referred to as semi-automatic transmissions. Historically, they are meant to be driving in manual mode, but provide fully automatic modes for convenience and that's what I so like about them. I don't like all dual clutch transmissions, though as quite a few of them try to be like a traditional automatic and take out that feel of connectedness that you get from the more raw versions in something like the RS5 and R8.
Unfortunately, this is changing. The ZF8 is fundamentally designed to be primarily driven in fully automatic mode and it tries to pretend to be a semi-automatic when driven in M. They are getting better and faster, but they are still lacking and it's not the same. However, what I do not like about the ZF8 other than its relative sloppiness in comparison to a dual clutch is the gear hunting. With 8 gears it quickly steps down a gear with just slight throttle input on the highway for example, so I continue to drive them in M and control the gears myself. I prefer to downshift myself before overtaking or accelerating for example instead of stepping on the throttle and than have the transmission try to catch up to my intention. Just feels awkward and goes back to my years of driving manual transmissions.
Last edited by superswiss; 07-20-2018 at 01:24 PM.
07-20-2018, 01:44 PM
#29
AudiWorld Super User
07-20-2018, 01:46 PM
#30
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That was a joke. I am enjoying the discussion.
I have no experience with an S4 with such a transmission but I have read here that many people prefer and miss them. I have spend a good deal of time in A4s with the DSG. I can't say that I specifically notice the difference in transmission. I DEFINTELY notice the difference in the cars, and I much prefer the S4. Whether I would like it better with a DSG, I couldn't say. I probably would find it hard to tell.
I have no experience with an S4 with such a transmission but I have read here that many people prefer and miss them. I have spend a good deal of time in A4s with the DSG. I can't say that I specifically notice the difference in transmission. I DEFINTELY notice the difference in the cars, and I much prefer the S4. Whether I would like it better with a DSG, I couldn't say. I probably would find it hard to tell.