markcincinnati

As you probably know, the configurator for the RS5 is live on audiusa.com. Realizing that the 2-door (A5 family) and the 4-door (A4 family) are somewhat of an "apples to oranges" comparison (but only somewhat), I configured an RS5 to "mostly" match my S4's features and options. Based on my quick build (in Nardo -- which, unlike Daytona, is no extra cost) the charge for the RS5 would be about $16,000-$17,575 (or maybe $17,000-$18,000) more than my S4. For that money, you get some very nice "styling" cues and certainly some performance benefits (444 HP vs 354 HP, for instance).

Looking at the interior of the vehicle, however, is an exercise in "S" sameness. This isn't exactly a bad thing (not at all) -- but the front seats are embossed with "RS" instead of "S" and apparently carbon fiber (where mine is satin-aluminum) are about the main differences. Someone who rides to lunch with you one or two times per week might think the interiors were "pretty much" identical. Again, not a bad thing, but 90 HP, some exterior bling, and an Alcantara sport-steering-wheel don't seem to justify the cost hike.

It could be me.

The wheel program is even worse if you asked me than the S4's. I'm actually quite good with the 18's on my S4. I mean I don't -- every time I see it -- curse and wish I would have elected the "heavier, more fragile" 19's with the tires destined to die young on Ohio's pot-holed roads. I would, however, probably wish I'd gone for the 20" wheels on the RS5 (over the standard 19's), however. I mean, "Hello Audi! Is this thing on? Are you nucking futz to offer THOSE wheels as the standard fare?" Gawd.

The RS cars -- typically -- have been special (and this one is OK+, but for that kind of upcharge, the plusses I was expecting just aren't there.) It needs "MORE" of something (in addition to more power) to stir my loins (and loosen my grip on my checkbook).

I'm back to a post I made somewhere here a couple of days ago: We need an S4+. Such vehicle would offer 5-10% more HP and torque, a slightly enhanced suspension (with REAL magnetic-ride "shocks" and slightly stiffer roll-bars) that would be a "hair" lower, and a special wheel/tire program in both 18" and 19" sizes. There would be, of course, the "S4+" badging and perhaps some slight changes to the front fascia and maybe even the "oval" tail-pipes. The "+" package would be $2,995 - $3,995 (and there would be a couple of S4+ only options offered) and there would be a couple of S4+ unique colors (Nardo?) too. Just call it S4+ and $4,000 and I'm there.

The RS5, is very, very nice -- I might even go $10,000 for it, as I configured it, but $17K -- Nah, baby, Nah and hell no.

Here's hoping there will be some extra "good stuff" in the mid-cycle B9 to B9.5 refresh that keeps the faithful's attention.

I leave you with a sigh as I say: "Meh. . ."

Also, remember: I'm OFTEN wrong, but NEVER uncertain.

plat27265

This same question was answered by a car reviewer on YouTube by doing a side-by-side comparison between the RS5 and the S5. The question is: Is it worth GBP 13k over the S5? Matt of Carwow is in the UK but his video dives deep to answer this very good question. Here is the video link:

The bottom line is that it (RS5) just does not feel and look special enough to warrant the extra $$ just as you assessed.

I agree that Audi should probably offer a power upgrade for the S. BMW does offer an M Power Kit that boosts the BHP of the 440i Coupe by around 40hp, if I remember correctly.

markcincinnati

A 25 HP bump (or maybe even 40 HP, as you suggest) plus a couple of S4+ "specials" (uniqueness) would be -- for many of us -- virtually a no-brainer. Heck, when Audi offered (not long ago) the S-Line package which, frankly, offered NO performance upgrades, but looked snazzy, it was a hit. Couple a little differentiation for the S4+ and a bit more zip, charge a reasonable amount (like the "black optics" is offered at a reasonable cost -- even though I think the cost for the BO is too high, one man's opinion), perhaps in the $3,995 neighborhood and wait for the orders to come in.

Of course, I also think there ought to be an A4+ that gets the S3 engine in a Prestige A4 (with a sport suspension and sport seats). Would that cannibalize S4 sales -- maybe. I'd still opt for an S4+ (as I have been ranting about) anytime.

jgdiablo

My view as I went through this very same assessment for the entire A/S 4/5 line. A4 Prestige + $10,000 = S4 Prestige. The engine upgrade is worth the $10K for me. Note: there's a $3K-$4K uptick to go for a '4' to a '5'. So...now we're at the uptick to go from S4 to RS5.... removing the $3K for the '4' to '5' move, we're now at $14K upgrade --- $10K for the bigger engine (90HP) and another $4K for internal tweaks... As much as I'd love to own the RS5, the uptick just doesn't justify it as much as the justification was clear as daylight to go from A4 to S4...

mplsbrian

In this thread: people not understanding that the difference between a "sport" and "racing sport" model of a vehicle (whether audi or otherwise) goes well beyond a steering wheel wrapped in different fabric or 90 extra ponies.

Stopping power and brake fade resistance are upgraded - especially so if you equip ceramic brakes. Handling is greatly improved over any S4/S5, even on the base level fixed RS suspension. The car is lower to the ground so aerodynamics are improved. An electric turbo assist is added to help low end boost. A regenerative braking system is added to help replenish the batteries that feed that turbo.

Guys, the RS5 is not intended for S4-buying dentists to ponder the value proposition of carbon fiber dash trim while driving to work. It is intended for the customer who has a "track day tire budget" line item in their personal finance spreadsheet who understands that on an 85-and-sunny track day, leather steering wheels get a little slippery from sweat and are hot to the touch when you're turning laps with the AC off so that it doesn't sap power, and so alcantara wheels are a better choice even though they are a synthetic lower end fabric. Or a person who understands that a 30% increase in spring stiffness and damper response time might translate to 2-3 extra seconds per lap at the circuit. A person who can push the S4's not-as-substantial-as-they-look brakes to the point of fading on a single canyon descent or circuit lap.

On the other end of the spectrum it is also marketed as a daily driveable example of a car that can do the above, but that is also understated enough for the weekday-C-level-exec-turned-weekend-recreational-pilot-and-all-around-adrenaline-junkie to whom $15,000 is like, an hour or two's work, to drive to the office or customer meetings without looking like "that douchey exec that parks his ferrari in the reserved spot by the door while we peons do the long walk from the ramp."

You can not add the upgrades I mentioned for $15,000 on the aftermarket *let alone* warranty them, and in that sense, this car is a bargain to such a customer. If you don't "get it," the car isn't for you. And that's okay

markcincinnati

Brian, after my own assessment and watching the CARWOW video, I can't (and this does not mean I think your statements are false) find myself agreeing that the "upgrades" are worth $15,000. And, if equipped with the ceramic brakes, for instance, the number climbs well above the $15,000 mark.

Perhaps there are folks (I'm sure there are, in fact) here in SW Ohio who will go ahead and spend well north of $80K for an even higher-spec RS5 (than I built online), but the number of customers who will actually "track" their cars will be few. They'll buy the RS5 for a bump in performance that 444 HP suggests, would be my guess. My next door neighbor is a dentist, by the way, he has an Accord. Another neighbor drives that big-*** Mercedes SUV-thingy (he's President of a food company). My wife and I (and she's a lawyer and I own a software company) drive an SQ5 and S4 respectively -- and both of us have remarked that we'd "like" a bit more. Perhaps you're correct about all of the "hidden" upgrades the RS5 offers over the S5, but I agree with the CARWOW video -- the RS5 just doesn't seem as "special" as its extra cost suggests it is.

I guess what I'm saying is "I don't get it" -- and the car is, therefore (for me) a disappointment. At $80K, an S6 looks a lot more like a bargain than the RS5.

mplsbrian

@Mark-
Nothing you said is contendable. We all each must decide for ourselves whether a car is right for us / worth it to us. In fact, I would bet a round at the bar that there's a Honda Accord forum somewhere where someone has posted your exact sentiments--maybe even word for word--as to how a a $62,000 2018 Audi S4 Prestige could not possibly be "worth it" for over $30,000 more than a 2018 Honda Accord 2.0t EX-L or Touring, stating that the "only difference between them" seems to be 82 horsepower (which is even less than the 90 HP difference between S5 and RS5, btw) and all wheel drive. As we S4 owners all know, that is true on paper but not at all true in our "favorite secret corner where we goose it when no other cars are around," or whatever the concept of "high performance driving" means to each of us that chose an S4 for the many specific, hard-to-quantify-on-a-budgetary-spreadsheet characteristics that set it apart.

I can't say those Accord folks are wrong. In fact if that Accord had AWD, I honestly would have bought one--and a friggin' Miata for the weekends too, with the money I'd have had left over.

But my point stands that our cars (S4) are not marketed for the Accord-buying plebeian populace, or in this specific thread's example, the S4-buying plebeian populace. It is a different grade of customer who most of the regulars on this forum do not meet the criteria for (and apparently, the guys at CarWOW who made that video) and therefore can't seem to understand the value proposition of such a car. But some of us do, and those of us that do might very much like to see a B9 (or future B10) RS4 hit the States someday. I would buy one in a heartbeat if I could afford one, and I hope to be able to both afford one and see it as an option by the time my S4 is due for refreshment.

Suppose I had said nothing, and suppose Audi Corporate does indeed read these forums. I would hate for them to get the impression that "we" (that is, those of us in the US who buy "top of the line A4s" aka the S4 Prestige with Sport Package) "all" don't find the RS5 to be "worth it." That would be inaccurate.

So, Audi, if you're listening: I think the RS5 is very much worth the extra $...but I require the trunk space and rear seat headroom as well as prefer the design of the (R)S4 Avant, and so I very much hope you don't think Mark and others' comments here represent all of us. Aforementioned circumstances allowing, I would buy this particular RS4 Avant in a heartbeat, and I would happily pay $17K (or whatever) more than my S4 for the privilege.

luv2sleep

Different strokes for different folks. I'm not too impressed with the new RS5 but if I were in the market, I'd opt for the RS5 over a S4 just because I prefer more HP & torque.
As for the RS4 Avant, I'd put $ down right now if I can buy one. It checks every box for me: power, utility, practicality, sleeper, hot hatch, and looks. IMHO, it looks so much beefier and meaner than the RS5. C'mon Audi, bring on the station wagon!

superswiss

This same discussion took place with the previous RS5 vs the S4/5. Back then it was even a little different and we argued about NA vs. supercharged. Most on the supercharged side didn't get what a high-revving NA V8 does for driving experience. Full disclosure here, I'm generally underwhelmed by the new RS5 so far. It doesn't offer the things that made me buy the previous RS5, but I'm looking forward to taking one on one of my canyon runs. Just waiting for Audi on Demand to get theirs, so I can take it out for a proper test drive and decide for myself.

However, there is a difference between an RS and S that you won't be able to capture on a piece of paper. The jury for me is still out on the new RS5 if it has that same character to it. The engine largely defines the character of a car and with the previous RS5 there was no question that it is a very different car from the S. A high-revving NA V8 drives very different from a supercharged V6. Combined with the track tuned and beefed up S-tronic and everything else taken to a 110% made me never wanna go back to an S again.

But here we are with the new RS5. The S5 is a turbo engine, the RS5 is too. Just one more turbo and no it doesn't use an electric turbo. It still has beefier brakes, and the dynamic ride control suspension is on a different level than the adjustable suspension available on the S, so there are still things about it that very much make it an RS. This question I think can only be answered with a test drive this time. I bought my RS5 cash w/o ever driving one and even did European Delivery, so the first time I sat in one, started the engine and took it on the road was in Ingolstadt Germany. I just knew I was gonna like it and I haven't regretted the purchase since. I don't feel like this about the new RS5 quite honestly, so this time I'm gonna have to drive it first and decide.

I would recommend you do the same. Drive it. If you've never owned an RS, I don't think you understand what RS is about. I have been there. My previous car was a B7 S4 and I felt the B7 RS4 wasn't worth it, but I now know I was wrong back then.

njspeedfreak

Yeah, I'm a bit underwhelmed with the RS compared to the S. If I was rolling around in FU money than I would probably go RS and use the Audi Exclusive money to ditch the black interior and go with the brushed aluminum and rotor gray my current S5 has. But then again, if I had FU money I'd probably be looking at a Porsche.

But maybe this is a testament to just how good cars are today, and how good Audi's are in particular. Back when I bought my first S4 in 2001 it had 250hp. You can get that in an A4 today. If I recall correctly the RS4 of that era was just north of 360hp which is just about where the S4 is today. At some point more horsepower isn't really that useful in day to day driving so I'm not really feeling like I'm missing out with only 350hp instead of 450. The older RS4's always looked more muscular with the bulging wheel arches, but if you look around at some of the examples on this forum where people have done RS grill swaps you would be hard pressed to say that the current iterations don't already look fantastic as is.

Once you achieve greatness, it's hard to improve.