mplsbrian

The psychological reality is that if you are able to buy an S4 without the sport package at an excellent price, and then you never subsequently give the beans to an S4 equipped with the sport package to see for yourself what you passed on, then you will definitely enjoy your car every single day you drive it and never be the wiser. You may even enjoy it so much that you channel your inner Mark and drop into these sorts of threads once in a while to decry the value of options you didn't personally select and have no more than a test drive's experience with!

That's not a rip on Mark or his opinion at all (OK, maybe it's just a little bit of friendly teasing -- but I do truly respect Mark and he adds a lot of value to these forums), but rather a testament to how great the B9 S4 is no matter how you option it. The truth is that a base model Premium Plus with all seasons is still going to be more competent than 90-95% of the cars you'll see on your daily commute.

And if that's all you're going to do with it (commute), then a strong argument could be made to go that route and put the extra $15K you'd have otherwise spent on Prestige trim + Sport Package + all the other options towards a used-but-already-fully-set-up Miata or some other driver's car for the weekend/track. And if you're buying the S4 gently used, then the value proposition / savings gap is even higher.

markcincinnati

The S4 without the sport package is not simply an A4 with more power. The sport suspension settings on the S4 are "unique" to the S4/S5 -- even comparing an A4 with its optional sport suspension, the S4's "S" calibration is an improvement (In handling) over the A4. The S4 comes standard with Torque Managment -- this brake based TM is also carried over to the S4's equipped with the optional sport package. During most of the driving most of us enjoy, the standard TM mitigates some (perhaps most) of the under-steer that we might induce in normal, even somewhat spirited driving. The optional sport differential, which I would buy with my own money if it was (again) a stand-alone option, does require that the car be pushed harder into "other than straight-line maneuvers" for its impact to be more than psychological (due in no small measure to the capabilities provided standard with the brake-based TM.) Yet, I'd buy it, since I kept telling myself it provided real, discernible benefits. That remark is probably more rationalization than real -- I perceived the sport diff had (although very rarely) some benefit. And, as is a truism, perception is reality.

The red calipers are, however, the real deal. They look cool -- and that is why an A7 costs $10,000 more than an a stylistically different but otherwise identical A6. The red calipers, at $400 (when they were standalone) are really worth the asking price, or they would be if they could be had all by itself.

And, finally, if my perception of the sport shocks was in error, I apologize and stand corrected. What I cannot find is if these shocks provide a seamless change from soft to medium to hard or if they are really a step-type shock. These are not the same as magnaride, that much seems without dispute. My personal experience, somewhat verified, is tha the differences between comfort and dynamic are very subtle. The differences on the RS5 are not even remotely subtle. That set up would be worth purchasing.

Maybe, when all my critical comments are boiled down, my most significant complaint is that these three "options" bundled together seem inadequately labeled. When I read the announcement of the "new" A4 (here on AW), I was very disappointed. The salient features in the press release were all of the "appearance of performance" type. Likewise, red calipers -- which I would buy with zero hesitation -- are not performance enhancers of any type. They just, to me, look cool. Likewise, the "active dampers" seem to be replacing the standard dampers which are medium stiff and do not adjust. The difference that could have been would have been to provide the sport suspension option that would lower and stiffen the springs AND offer the RS5's active dampers. This S option in this regard is a faux sport option. The sport diff is the real deal here -- but here in SW Ohio it is RARE, no, VERY RARE, that the sport diff provides any real improvments in 95% of my daily driving and as for the other 5% I have to induce the conditions under which the sport diff will really do its job (and, under those circumstances, it IS an advantage.)

The hell of it is, the retail price of the combined "features" that Audi's marketing has deemed "sport" is only $2,500 of which $400 (for the red calipers) is worth it, in the same way the new A4's S Line cosmetic "upgrades" are worh it. Such things sell more cars -- and I'm just as susceptible to the "shiny thing" as most folks are. I just find calling appearance "options" marketed as performance enhancers to be disingenuous.

This is NOT saying that the sport package on the S4 does not contain two features that are NOT simply appearance related. What I'm saying is that this sport option doesn't change the suspension component that "could" be (should be?) changed. And the component -- the dynamic shocks -- that could have been a "game changer" (as it certainly appears to be in the RS5) have been tuned for the most subtle differences possible. Many folks can't even tell the difference in the modes -- something that is certainly not the case in the RS5 setup (which should be an option available on the S4 and S5 line, if you asked me -- which you didn't).

An S4 at a Great Price that lacks the sport package would be very attractive. If, on the other hand, for ANY reason, you simply WANT the sport package, you shouldn't be swayed by my cynical (and smart-***) remarks -- especially since I've even said I would get the red calipers and the sport diff if they were but offered as individual options. And, I even truly believe the value of the sport diff would be almost impossible to cost-justify. I just want it, but NOT quite enough to be forced to buy the bundle.

As always, "To each his/her own" and I remain OFTEN wrong, NEVER uncertain.

mplsbrian

Here is a video that explains better how the shocks themselves work. The most interesting bit is at 2:38, which I've included a screenshot of.

You are correct that they are not magnaride. Magnaride uses a magnetically reactive fluid in the damper housing which becomes artificially more viscuous in the presence of an [electro-]magnetic field.

The S4 CDC shocks are traditional oil-based shocks and work just like any standard shocks in terms of action/behavior, but they do use electromagnets. Instead of a fixed valve opening like a normal damper would have, there is a continuously variable valve opening, the size of which is micro-adjusted constantly by using an electromagnet to push it open when current is applied, and a spring to push it closed when current is released (or maybe I have the action backwards, doesn't matter / the concept is the same).

I drew a red star the valve/spring mechanism that in my screenshot. The starred part is actuated by the electromagnets above & below it (this picture is of course a cross section, those actually encircle the mechanism in reality I believe).

The valve opening size is varied constantly in all Drive Select modes via those magnets, but the Drive Select Mode determines what size range the valve opening should stay within and where it should consider to be the "middle / at rest / default" size, or however you want to think of it.

When you place the car in Dynamic, the valve default opening size will be smaller, resisting damping fluid flow between the upper and lower shock body the most and making the ride stiffer and more resistant to body roll/squat/etc. It is not a fixed position however, it varies within a range.

In Auto, the valve opening is given a more middle-of-the-road range and "return-to" setting, and won't get nearly as soft or as hard as Comfort/Dynamic typically, but still operates within a range constantly as well.

Comfort is the opposite of dynamic -- largest average valve openings for maximum bump soakiness, and chassis sensors such as body roll do not cause the valve size to shrink quite so much, thereby allowing more body roll and chassis float which to your average grandmother is a more comfortable and less sudden way to get around a corner or negotiate an off-plane bump. However even in comfort, the valves are not locked wide open and operate within a range.

markcincinnati

Here's some information from my Audi Guru (this is the top guy in the service department): The system (as described above) has proven to be as reliable AND durable as the stock shocks. Moreover, when there is a "normal" shock failure, it is NOT a requirement to replace more than one shock at a time (I did get the impression, however, if one shock goes, he would suggest both the shocks on a given axle be replaced due to the "normal" degradation of the devices.) Further, he said the labor requirements to replace these are "virtually" identical as the standard shock the main difference being that the shock has to be "connected" via a sensor/control wire.

I actually couldn't get him to render an opinion as to their efficacy, however -- all he would say is that the RS5 system is "very noticeable." My impression is that what he said was open to your own interpretation. He certainly was not anti in any way, but he seemed more wanting to discuss them from a "service" and serviceability perspective (which is understandable.)

Can anyone find the "damping" characteristics of the standard S4 shock (perhaps someway to define "stiffness" or to describe jounce). What I wonder is if folks find themselves "setting and forgetting" the CDC shocks and that, in the main, the settings chosen actually come very close to the non-CDC shock setting. I had this system on a B8 A4 that also was ordered with the sport suspension, 19" wheels and summer only tires. The differences between comfort and dynamic were very subtle, hardly perceptible, in fact. I ordered a new S4 (two of them, actually) one with the sport package and one without -- otherwise identical (one in Ibis one in Daytona) -- the retail difference was less than 2K since the Ibis car had FREE paint. I was, I'm sorry to say, underwhelmed with the option (other than the calipers.) To get the red calipers on the Daytona was $1,600 using Audi parts. Pass. CDC shocks, again: Pass. Couldn't get the sport diff all by itself. Instead, I bought Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+'s for about $1,000 and haven't looked back, very pleased, in fact -- best riding and handling "S" car ever.

mplsbrian

The figures you're looking to compare are known as the damping ratio (link), and they are a formulaic thing that is not at all easy to compare because dampers compress at different rates depending on the strength of a force, how sudden it is (high speed compression vs. low speed compression) spring rate and weight of the vehicle, sag of the vehicle, length of the shock body's stroke, etc. Capture the attention of a engineer-by-week / mountain-bike-enthusiast-by-weekend and I bet you will overwhelm yourself with info about this one

Anyway, I'm not aware of any published statistics on those parameters... in fact I would be surprised if Audi doesn't consider them a trade secret. Designing suspensions is a massively complex task with lots of math involved. It would be an interesting thing to compare, though!

Wesley Walls

Great feedback all! As noted, the MAIN feature I was interested in with the S Sport package (besides just having all of the sport/performance bits...my typical persuasion) are the adaptive dampers, because I LOVE the idea of having a choice with ride compliance. To that point, I like the candid and impassioned response from @markcincinnati. He summed up my hesitation about the package - which I experienced after having searched high-and-low when buying my 2014 BMW 335i with the "Dynamic Handling Package" - and that is, that after all the fuss, I really couldn't tell any dramatic difference between modes in my car (and I'm a discriminating and arguably detail-oriented individual).

So, given my own let-down experience with an adaptive suspension on my BMW (combined with Mark and other's notes that it's also pretty subtle in the S4/5...in contrast to the RS4/5), AND the fact that the particular S4 I found was such a great deal (low cost), I've opted to purchase it. I hope I don't regret not having the performance bits, but like @mplsbrian said, I trust I won't look back and will enjoy the car immensely without dwelling on the what-if...

I'm looking forward to getting back into the Audi community (I joined this forum back in 1997 with my first - and only - Audi to date, a 1998 A4 1.8T Sport 6MT), and I appreciate the great feedback!

superswiss

Thanks @mplsbrian for correcting some of this misinformation. I appreciate @markcincinnati's input, but his view is definitely somewhat naive and misinformed unfortunately. That's OK. I've been trying to correct some of this misinformation in other threads but it doesn't quite fully stick. I definitely agree that if one drives like a grandmother, is stuck in traffic all the time or doesn't have access to some fun roads, these sport options are somewhat irrelevant and a waste of money, but that doesn't mean they are not good and it's a disservice to keep posting misinformation about how they work. The best thing about an adaptive suspension is the fact that it continuously adapts. The ability to select comfort, auto and dynamic is somewhat just a nice side effect. As explained, the chassis ECU continuously monitors how you drive, the road conditions, the yaw of the car etc. Lots of sensors in the car to measure many metrics and then based on the information it continuously adjusts the suspension, sport differential and dynamic steering depending on what the car is equipped with based on the selected base profile in Drive Select. The Drive Select mode needs to be thought of as a profile that influences how these continuous adjustments are made. In comfort mode the adjustments are made for overall increased comfort and in dynamic mode they are made for overall agility. It's just a matter of what the algorithm prioritizes and Drive Select tells it what you wish to be prioritized, comfort or agility. Auto mode is a balanced mode that tries to average out comfort and agility and is meant essentially for daily driving.

Now with that out of the way, in many cars I've driven the difference between comfort mode and dynamic is somewhat subtle. Especially on A models. I can barely tell the difference between comfort mode and dynamic mode. It's almost pointless. The further up you go on the performance trim ladder and the more sport options you equip the car with, the more noticeable the differences become. I do find that most adjustable suspension technologies just don't have a wide range between comfort and dynamic. As correctly mentioned, the RS5's DRC suspension is by far one of the best. It has a largely unmatched range between comfort and dynamic and is by far the best thing about the new RS5. But even the magnetic shocks in the RS3, TTRS and R8 are rather meh IMO. Best is really to test drive the car on different roads. A lot of this also depends on what kind of roads you drive, so a really good comfort mode is more important to some than others.

Personally, I generally prefer fixed sport suspensions. They provide better feedback overall. Active suspension have a tendency to feel unnatural and absorb feedback. I extensively drove the R8 V10 Plus two weeks ago on fun canyon roads for example, and the fixed suspension was significantly better than the magnetic shocks in the regular R8 V10. The car was overall much more communicative and I knew when I was starting to loose grip, whereas in the regular R8 I almost wiped out fully a few times as it all the sudden goes sideways w/o much warning.

It comes down to personal priorities. I think if you favor a comfortable ride you may not wanna consider a sporty car in the first place. They all are somewhat more on the firm side and throw in a little subtle token with a comfort mode that makes the car somewhat more comfortable. Again, the RS5 is a huge exception in the current Audi Sport model range.

EDIT: I should also add that how much one notices the difference between the modes depends on how one drives. You'll notice a bigger difference when trying to attack a canyon road, taking the car closer to the limits doing it in comfort mode vs dynamic mode. The differences will be quite obvious especially if you have the sport differential. It's very obvious on my RS5 even driving spirited around town. When I have the sport differential in comfort or auto mode it takes much more steering input to get around a spirited corner whereas with the sport differential in dynamic mode, the car rotates much more eager and the radius can easily be controlled with more or less throttle input instead of more or less steering input. This stuff greatly adds to the fun factor.

millersntx

Late to the party, but the sport package is a must have in my opinion. Why it's not standard on an "S" is beyond me. There is a subtle, but noticeable difference in the suspension settings. Given Houston's crappy roads, I found myself setting the suspension to Comfort and everything else to Dynamic. I think the sport diff in the B9 is terrific. The B8 sport diff was more binary in nature. the B9 sport diff is much smoother and doesn't upset the car in turns if you're "heavy on the petals". The car just feels nice and neutral in most conditions.
I just with there was a Comfort/Dynamic setting for the transmission. The transmission is the Achilles heel of the B9 in my opinion. It's fine when it's on full boil (as in don't pass go, go directly to jail), but it's pretty lethargic in other conditions. My driving is mostly city driving and I find myself manually shifting a lot. Never had to do that with my B8.
I don't understand why my brake calipers only have the "S" now, instead of the "S4" (ditto the seat and steering wheel). I also have the ugly rear calipers when I spot almost every time I walk up to the car for some damn reason

markcincinnati

Not sure why you say you wish there was a Comfort or Dynamic setting for the transmission. My B9 S4 in ADS Individual mode does allow the transmission to be changed from c to a to d -- I leave mine set in Dynamic. Of course, when you start the car the default for the transmission is D, which always entails pulling the transmission lever to select S.

The overall theme here has been that the differences in the CDC and the SD are "subtle" and are most noticeable when driving the car more aggressively. Every one of us that lives in an urban location (GT 100,000 pop.) probably faces an ever-growing "clog" of traffic which seems to shave a few MPH off of the speed at which one goes from point A to B as every year passes. In Cincinnati with an SMSA of over 1.5M traffic now reminds me of the James Taylor lyrics: it takes 15 minutes to go three blocks, damn this traffic jam.

Having said that, my drive in the 2018 RS5 was a blast, then I took my S4 over the exact same route at the exact same speed and my thoughts were, essentially, "why bother" with the RS5 since I will not have the luxury and sublime pleasure of driving over the routes often written about in Car and Driver, Road and Track, and Automobile.

The sport package, if you want it, if you can benefit from its subtleties, etc., is something you should spring for. Having "been there done that," I (not you, me) find the sport package as I've noted to be of minimal -- subtle -- impact/benefit. This does not mean you will not perceive the car is transformed by having it. I used to perceive these exact same "benefits" and sensations. Now, I realize that -- for ME -- the subtleness is, well, too subtle. The RS5's system is not subtle -- it actually is immediately discernable.

Try driving two S4s back to back, one with and one without (same tire type and size too), if someone were to change the setting between comfort and dynamic and you can pick it out time and again, that should seal the deal. Many (most?) folks won't find the differences compelling. But, no matter what you do, it's not like anything I've said or any opinion I've rendered even remotely suggest you will make a bad decision whichever way you choose. I simply maintain that its the red calipers that make the difference (between your ears) more than the other features.

Also, I agree that the sport diff should be standard equipment and since my SQ5 has, as far as I can tell, the CDC system (and it was standard), what the heck, throw that in too. With respect to the CDC that I now have some 25,000 miles worth of experience with, it is just so subtle as to be virtually undetectable. My wife said it is "impossible" to tell the difference and she's looking to test drive another SQ5 with the air suspension to see what effect that has on things.

The RS5's implementation is remarkable. The others? Not so much (so says a party of one).

millersntx

Mis-statement. I wish the S setting was more dynamic during normal driving. Even in the S setting, I think the transmission is lethargic, unless you're driving aggressively, at which point it uses a much more aggressive map. I with the D setting was the current S (with the possible exception of 8th gear) and the S setting had a nice, aggressive shift map. The transmission is the only thing that I think is a step back in the B9 vs. the B8.