socialpro

I purposely left out any mention of acceleration / engine response / throttle tip in as I still have not made up my mind where I stand on it.

Partially because yes - the shifting characteristics for an S4 are NOT sporty. I have felt a much more direct connection between pedal --> engine --> acceleration in my previous B8.5 S4.

I'm not sure where the culprit fully lies - but between letting go of the DSG, plopping a turbo charger in place of supercharger in there, and altering transmission mapping - you get the B9 S4.

Interesting case in point - my wife hated the way the car shifted AND accelerated in my 8.5 but LOVES the B9 (in almost every possible way). I believe it really depends on the driver which transmission / engine choice suits the person. Maybe an upcoming tune will fix some of that inherent 'lag' that seems to come up?

One thing I can take away form the B9 S4 - is I feel like it tries to be more to a lot more people - where they started throwing more or less everything into the car to appeal to a broader range of clientele (massaging seats!?, dual pane windows (great highway/distance cruiser), smoother (laggier?!) transmission, slightly more room, etc) - but took out some of the 'enthusiast' points in the process. I as well as some of my friends who drove it agree it is less 's4' but more like an 'A4+'.

Nevertheless - overall it is a phenomenal automobile that offers such great bang for the buck. The car actually grew on me - as I started doing less of a comparison between the previous S4 - and rather seeing it standalone for what it is. So much that I might (sooner or later) consider downsizing my RS7 to an S5 / RS5 when I get the car ADD setting in.

Spartan-S4

Well we know there is a fix in Germany still going on so I'm sure when that is done there, it's going to probably come here and they talked about it affecting throttle/mpg...so something is upcoming.

markcincinnati

If you find yourself disappointed with the new Audi S4 – and that disappointment stems from “turbo-lag,” it is possible your particular car has some issue that is exacerbating the lag that is, in theory at least, possible since the full torque (369 lb./ft.) is reached at a low 1,370 RPM.

Of course, the relationship between HP and Torque and the 8-speed transmission must be “as designed” in order for the least amount of lag and the greatest amount of lunge. After having experienced Audi’s 2.7T which did have some brief but very noticeable lag before the tach needle would race to “engine cut-off” almost before you could catch it, especially if you had one of these power-plants connected to a 6-speed manual, the current turbo feels to me virtually lag free.

I am not alone in this impression of low to no turbo lag in this new turbo 3.0T S4.

Yet, I do not disbelieve those owners who find the ’18 S4 presenting “significant” lag. I’ve only chatted briefly with ’18 S4 and S5 Sportback owners while I’ve been at the dealer – and none of them have ever mentioned lag, quite the contrary, in fact – they, to a person, express the “awesome” power of their new S’s.

I mentioned my (45MPH and then flooring) “experiment” tonight to my wife and she says she finds her SQ5 has lag if she doesn’t put the transmission in “S” while driving around town. My wife works in the heart of downtown Cincinnati, where speeds generally top out at 35, often 25. She feels the need to keep the SQ5 in S mode there, which I assume is required to keep the torque and the driving experience more “tightly wound.” When she gets to the Interstate, she changes to D in the name of improved fuel economy.

I’ve tried to “encourage” her to use the paddle shifters, but for some reason she seems hesitant to do so, perhaps due to lack of practice. Catch 22, I guess.

Overall, the SQ5 with its shorter final drive ratio, keeps the revs up at all times – compared to the S4. I assume this is to retain a bit of the “coiled spring” personality of the S4 when it’s set to full dynamic mode.

I’ve not driven an RS 7, TT RS, RS 3, RS 5, S8+ or R8. This means I have driven the S3, S4, S5, S6 and S7 (and “regular” A8) models. The S3 felt like a go cart when the dynamic setting was selected (the tester had the “magnetic” shocks) and the S6 seemed like an absolutely certain way to “earn” a speeding ticket, but actually lacked drama as it rocketed to speeds north of 100. Of all of the Audis I’ve driven and/or owned, the new S4 now seems like it has become Audi’s “Goldilocks” car – everything about it is “just right.” Especially if you’re able to spring for a $60K+ car (probably leased) and are looking perhaps more for a Grand Tourer than an M3 rival (which is the job NOT of the S cars in the first place, rather it is the job of the RS versions).

The new B9 S4, I say, is an improved version of the often criticized B8 and B8.5 S4. So many reviews of the prior S4 complained about the “harshness” of the DSG transmission (I loved mine) and about the lack of compliance afforded the driver and passengers due to the less-than-ideal suspension and chassis marriage.

It has been said that the previous generations (B8 and B8.5) had a chassis that was neither comfortable nor dynamic, its steering clumsy (Road & Track, October 2017).

When I read such reviews, I wonder what version of the B8.5’s they drove – I had few complaints about mine, even though I do find the B9 S4 to be a major improvement in compliance (and overall ride quality improvements) making this S4 handle even better than my much stiffer and harsher riding 2014 S4.

In any case, I have found myself hunting for turbo-lag these past couple of days, wondering why I find this S4 to have even less “lag” than even my supercharged previous S4 (which should, theoretically, have zero lag due to the supercharged approach to forced induction).

Here, following, are some “professional” reviews from cited sources you may or may not hold in high regard. These comments mirror my own experiences these 5,450+ miles to date on my ’18 S4.

Motor Trend

The new turbocharged engine is better in every measurable way from either the supercharged V-6 it replaces or the once-burly V-8 it outpaces.
The new eight-speed automatic should not be dismissed out of hand. Its logic when left to its own devices is very good. There are few if any “C’mon already!” moments. The transmission responses in Dynamic mode—or when manually forced to swap cogs up or down the scale—are practically indistinguishable from most twin-clutch automated manuals.

This B9-era S variant is finally threatening the best in the class and perhaps has even set new benchmarks in several categories.

Automobile

When I do find a stretch of open road and clear skies, a stomp of the gas pedal sends me off in a crimson streak of blistering precision. As I get on it, the S4 belts out its rich exhaust note on the way to a tempered rasp at 6,400 rpm. The new 3.0-liter turbo V-6 powering the 2018 S4 is light years ahead of the outgoing car’s supercharged six. For starters it has more guts, with 354 hp and 369 lb-ft of torque compared to 333 hp and 325 lb-ft before. At the low end of the rev range the S4 is eager and willing, with a more immediate torque curve peaking at just 1,370 rpm versus 3,000 rpm in the B8 S4. Nixing lag was a major focus for Audi engineers, who turned to a Hot-V setup (the twin-scroll turbo is nestled between the cylinder banks like a swaddled child with night terrors) to achieve shorter runs and better throttle response.

Combined with an eight-speed automatic transmission, the new S4 even gets 30 mpg on the highway (21 in city) – a nice jump from 18/28 mpg city/highway. More power and better fuel economy is a best of both worlds result we can always get behind.

New York Daily News

Lo and behold, the transmission is the revelation of the 2018 Audi S4. If an automatic with a torque converter can be this good, no one has any excuses for engineering a lesser transmission. And how ironic is that, coming from the brand than birthed the dual-clutch automatic? Left to its own devices or paddled over its head manually, this gearbox kicks almost every other one in the same species to the curb. In Dynamic mode, it rifles off crisp shifts immediately but just as deftly wafts along like cream cheese at a school zone pace.

stanj

We all know that there's a known problem with the transmission software and that there's a fix going on for that? (1) Not we _all_ know because just until now I didn't know such a thing, I didn't get a brochure nor did the sales person tell me anything about it, so no I didn't know there was a known problem that's already being fixed in Germany; (2) the fact that something is being fixed in Germany doesn't mean it will get fixed here; (3) the fact that they release a "sports" car that in its default configuration (D mode) behaves like it's towing a boat is kinda ... mind boggling.

Do you have a reference to the known problem about the laggy tranny?

dbuxton13

I'm with Mark on this "lag" discussion, and I am a bit perplexed that folks are perceiving that to be an issue... much less any description of "undrivable lag." Is that hyperbole or is it actual, clear-eyed, pragmatic analysis? If the latter, then I question whether the individual car itself may have issues.

The twin-scroll, by design, eliminates turbo-lag to it's lowest conceivable point. Professional car journalists, as Mark listed previously, have sung its virtues.

The ZF8 has also been described as an impressive transmission, and it is found in higher performance Audis than this one. The DSG gets the same level of fanatical attention as the Manual, as shown by the numerous threads that have been over and over this the last couple years. But most of that is psychological. An 8ms DSG shift and a 200ms ZF8 shift are nearly imperceptible by the body's somatosensory and vestibular systems.

Now to the point. This car was tested and tuned on the Nurburgring. That's where Audi, BMW, Porsche and other manufacturers develop their handling and driving mechanics. I have taken this car myself on all 12.9 miles of its track, with 1000 feet elevation changes and 73 corners (i.e. LOTS of braking and accelerating). It was an absolute joy. I have driven it through small villages at lower speeds, and the autobahn all the way up to the limiter.

Where. Is. The. Lag.

It's just not there, I have no idea what some of you are talking about. It's like we are in different cars or separate planets.

D mode versus S mode. In order to pass European emissions and achieve the ridiculously low 0.005g/km standard for direct injection engines, the test requires the car be started with no other adjustments made, no buttons pressed, no shift movements. Auto-start/stop is on as default. In other words, D mode puts the car into its lowest possible emissions (low performance) mode as possible. Audi gives us S mode to quickly and easily reconfigure the car where most 'real' drivers want to be. It was questioned why there is even a D mode, and why it is the default. That's why.

The 'fix' that held up production of *only* European cars in July/Aug was solely due to fuel economy and emissions tweaking of the ECU:

An Audi UK spokesman confirmed that CO2 figures for some models were being updated, which would come with delays. They said: “The adjustments and necessary certifications may have the effect that some models or model-engine combinations cannot be ordered, temporarily, or only with restrictions."

Software updates made to the 3.0-litre TFSI V6 engine used in the S4 and S5 models means they’re now thirstier than before – and Audi could be in trouble with EU regulators if it markets these cars without putting them through the official New European Driving Cycle (NEDC) test first.

This didn't affect US-spec cars because we aren't subject to European regulation. Don't expect an update to our US-spec cars, because we aren't included in the "problem."

Unfortunate that the OP's What's so wonderful about the 2018 S4 !! thread has been hijacked with this negative turn.

Twowheelsgood

I'm experiencing the lag, which in my car at least is clearly a slow transmission kick-down with throttle application in Comfort or Auto modes. The delay is long enough to get my attention and would be a real negative if that was all she wrote, but it isn't. Dynamic rode mitigates the delay, as does paddle shifting. Overall, I see this as a minor issue that, on the plus side, encourages me to do my own shifting and participate more in driving.

markcincinnati

I keep my S4 90% of the time in Individual mode, 10% of the time in Dynamic. In my configuration of Individual, my change from 100% Dynamic is that I have the exhaust sound set to Comfort, thus quieting the car even more. When I do shift to Dynamic, the sound level increases (as it should and when I want it to).

When I start the car in the AM, I back out of my garage and shift from R to N to D to S -- and I pull out of my driveway, virtually turbo-lag-free.

The notation that S vs D raises the engine RPM in normal driving by some 700 RPM is not my experience. I will check again, today, but it seems to me that the RPMs (until highway speeds are reached -- when the transmission shifts to 8th gear) are bumped "a few hundred RPM" -- averaging about 300-ish RPMs UNLESS I have been recently driving more aggressively which has the effect of keeping the car in a lower gear longer.

Yesterday, after my first 45MPH "run" (meaning I floored the car at 45MPH when it was in 5th gear -- in S mode) the second run from 45MPH, the transmission was in 4th gear (I assume in response to my "recent" flooring of the car held for a count of 3). The first run, kickdown started before I reached the floorboard with the accelerator (and no lag), the second run was even quicker and the terminal velocity was slightly higher after the same count of 3 -- and, NO lag.

I'm tempted to try this again with the ADS set to full dynamic (which would, after all, set the exhaust to dynamic, matching every other parameter.)

I do not have the mechanical sport diff (which adds a bit of weight, but I can't imagine it would add or contribute to lag). My tires are inflated to F-37, R-35, and I had an oil change about 500 miles ago using the 0W-20 oil.

Another difference between the first and second runs from 45MPH was engine temp. The first run the temp showed 162F, the second run, engine temp had risen to 192F (we're having a "cold" snap here in SW Ohio -- that I attribute to Irma).

Everything the engineers did, as has been noted, in this iteration of the 3.0T engine was meant to banish lag and improve emissions+efficiency. From this owner's perspective: Mission Accomplished.

ibu11et

I appreciate all the views here. There is a clear line of people on the lag/hesitation side and it seems an equal number of people on the “You guys must be crazy side”. One thing I noted is that Mark’s test was performed in manual mode starting from M4. I tried the same thing today and saw slightly less hesitation than from D or S. It was still there. This goes directly back to my point about the problem lying in the transmission and not the turbo configuration.

Let me say this. I have dyno’d this very car. It returned 299 whp / 366 wtq. My powerband was as expected based on Audi’s claims. I am pretty impressed with the numbers. I DO NOT BELIEVE THIS IS A TURBO LAG ISSUE. I don’t believe my car has a specific problem that is one off from the rest. I think the perception of what is acceptable is different. I think the ZF transmission is a giant turd.

I have driven the TTRS, RS3 and the R8. I drove them all at an Audi Driving Experience event this past Sunday. The TTRS and RS3 all exhibit similar characteristics to the S4. From idle, they lag about a full second before kicking in and moving. The only thing we were not allowed to do during our extended tests of the vehicles was use launch control. I know the off the line issue is fixed there. What I did notice was that coming out of turns there was less discernable lag in the DSG transmission than the S4 has. I drove the cars in an autocross setting and on a handling “track” at the Porsche Experience Center in Los Angeles. The cars performed to my expectations in both arenas.

The R8 is a totally different monster. That car just goes. From idle, from a roll, mid turn, per turn post turn; it’s all amazing. I wont even try to compare that car to these. I will say that the automatic transmission in the R8 performed like a manual. It downshifted when I would have downshifted. It shifts seamlessly at redline. It is a work of art.





All that being said, later today I will mount the GoPro in the S4 and talk through exactly what I am seeing. Maybe we are all seeing the same thing, but for some it is acceptable, some it isn’t.

And just for more eye candy, heres a pic of my car from a photo shoot yesterday, This is just from my phone. The professional should have the pics back in a couple weeks.

Glisse

There are several versions of the ZF8HP - the S4/S5 are using the ZF8HP55. The RS6/7, SQ7 and S8+ use the ZF8HP90. The last two digits refer to the torque ceiling of the transmission, 550Nm and 900Nm respectively. I assume the new RS5/RS4 will be using a ZF8HP75.

But yes, the transmission is highly regarded. The issue comes down to mapping. I agree with most of your other points - Audi have tried to maximise "numbers-game" efficiency in this model. At the expense of drive quality. The transmission mapping in D mode is unpleasant - neither BMW nor Mercedes are quite so extreme in their default Normal modes in their equivalent models. As you noted, Audi provide the ability to change from D mode to S mode (which is where it belongs) very quickly via the transmission lever, and independent from the Drive mode. Something its competitors cannot do.

From the description given by some earlier posters, if the car was actually in S mode and not responding, then it was cutting torque. The engine is producing a lot of torque at very low RPMs, and quattro or not, it will lose traction in certain situations. The traction control on the B9 is quite aggressive; using ESC Sport mode will reduce the level of torque cut. It also reduces the safety net somewhat, so isn't for everyone. BMW and Mercedes reduce the traction control level as you go up their Sport mode levels, Audi require you to do this manually via the ESC button.

The initial report on what Audi were doing with the S4/S5's 3.0TFSI that required removing the car from sale in Germany, then later some other markets, was first reported by Auto Motor und Sport in Germany. It was then picked up, kind of, by some other media outlets. Details of this were posted here in the forums. The report quoted an Audi spokesman claiming there would be an ECU program change to improve "comfort and responsiveness", and this would require a minor adjustment of the CO2 emission level (meaning a slight increase in fuel consumption, as CO2 emissions are a product of consumption).

This week, the S4/S5 have returned to the Audi Germany sales system as the new "version" has been re-certified (quite a lengthy process, almost 3 months), and the CO2 emissions have been increased. The car has moved down one level in the the European efficiency rankings, from C to D.

It will be some weeks before any of these new cars appear. Audi have not been particularly forthcoming as to just what they were changing with the ECU "adjustment". A cynic might suggest they have changed nothing at all, and they were sailing too close to the wind on their efficiency numbers for the S4/S5 models. Without driving old vs new, it is all speculation at the moment.

Whilst Audi mightn't care about the US market in terms of this issue, as it doesn't affect nitrogen oxides, your suggestion that there are different engine/transmission maps for US cars seems unlikely. There is no good reason to do that.

markcincinnati

I want to clarify my 45 and floored test.

At an indicated speed of 45 or 46, I moved the shift lever to "M" mode for one second to see what gear the transmission had arrived at.

First run "M5" was displayed as I have not enabled the numeric to the right of the D or S (had I, it would have showed S5).

I immediately moved the shift lever back to S mode and looked at the tach needle to see if the revs changed, indicating either an up or down shift.

Nothing happened, the effect of checking to see what gear I was in was nil.

Then, as I described, I floored the accelerator. The transmission mode was S, the ADS was Individual, I did not touch the shift paddles nor the gear shift lever.

The SECOND run, I did the same thing, but this time the engine temp had increased by 30F and the transmission indication was M4, probably part of the learning feature of the transmission -- the transmission "knew" I had just had a WOT run and had yet to figure out I had not planned to drive WOT on a regular basis (not possible due to traffic conditions).

The second run did return a "terminal" speed about 4MPH higher, as I would have expected since I started out in 4th gear which gave me a bit more "lunge".

Having come from over 53,000 miles with the '14 S4's DSG in my supercharged version, my butt, head and other "muscle" memory tells me that the shifts of this tip-8spd are just as quick as the 7spd-DSG, but perhaps the acceleration is, as the "professionals" have noted even better due to the increase in torque, the fact that the torque comes on at much lower RPM's and that with 8 cogs, the car is able to remain at its optimum power with less drop off when a shift is fired off. I believe, too, that the new S4 weighs about 100 pounds less than the '14.

I never thought I would say this, but the new S4 tip transmission makes me forget about my previous concerns that the tip wouldn't hold up against the DSG 7-spd. The rev matching is there, the crisp and instantaneous up shifts are there and the paddles cause the shifts to happen "in real time" too.

As I said, the quotes from the three publications in a previous post, describes exactly my experiences.

I, for one, do not believe and have not said "you guys must be crazy."

I believe your reporting of the issues that you have experienced.

However, therefore, notwithstanding: If your car makes you feel "the ZF transmission is a giant turd," I do think there just could be something wrong with your particular hardware and/or software. The folks who have taken up the "lag" issue, as far as I can tell, haven't expressed their frustrations and/or criticism and/or disappointment with the ZF transmission in such terms that leave no doubt this is, in your car, a real and very troubling "defect".

I would, if you lived in Cincinnati, personally take you to my dealer's guru, John, who I am positive would go out with you on a ride-along and then, if you agreed, would repeat what you did to demonstrate the condition with himself at the wheel. He would either personally take charge of an issue report or, if it was above his expertise (which is rare but not impossible), he would go the next level higher to Audi who has individuals the dealer guru can liaise with to resolve knotty problems and customer issues such as one that would cause the description to be "giant turd".

The RS 7 (I've not driven it) uses the 8-spd tip and after reading a test report of the RS 7 wherein the tester proclaimed the DSG in the S7 to be "inferior to the RS 7's tiptronic programming," I concur. The new RS 5 (tested in the October Road & Track) also uses the 8-spd tip and the review of the new RS contains nothing but praise for it.

All of these factors make me conclude there is an issue (I would think it is software) with your particular S4's transmission programming now that you have concluded yourself that this is NOT a turbo lag issue.

BTW great pictures and your S4 is quite good looking with the BO package's effect.