Anyone see this link? Pretty interesting to see. It's clear not all downpipes are the same.....
 

When I saw the pricing between AWE's and this "well engineered" competitor's pipes, my mind was made up. I guess the "engineers" never learned anything about exhaust design.<ul><li><a href="http://www.awe-tuning.com/pages/info/content_window.cfm?content=5">Downpipe Comparison pics</a></li></ul>

I think some burner from high School metal shop made the "A".

So who is "Competitor A?"

I wonder who makes the "A"

Ahh, but lets not forget one important fact - the outlets of our turbos are
 

the bottlenecks! If you really want to gain some performance, you're going to need to port your exhaust side of the turbo... I would be willing to bet, that removing the pre-cats, and relocating the O2 sensor in stock downpipes, yield similar, if not BETTER performance results than a larger pipe. Ideally, you wan't the piping to be the size of the outlet, and from there on, it would taper larger towards the end of the system!

the picture's alt tag will reveal all.. hehe

you are right!
 

the funny thing, there is no image available on their website

Competitor "A"'s DP looks like "P". What "R" they thinking?

So Competitor A's minimum restriction is only 81% as big as stock. Ouch.
 

No APR downpipes for me. I'll stick with my "upgraded" stock ones with a 23% larger minimum cross sectional area, thank you.

THey make it pretty obvious that it is awe vs apr..just hold your mouse over the picture.

Agreed, 100000%. I am leaning towards gutted stock DPs for this reason as...
 

.. I will most likely not upgrade the turbos.

A set of gutted/painted DPs run ~500.

I havn't read much on here regarding port matching/polishing. Back in the day, I read where port matching/polishing hurts turbo performance although I don't know in what way as better breathing always encourages better perf. perhaps it was in terms of softening up bottom end while tightening up top end perf.

:)

Pics are on ECS tuning's site, but I don't think those are the same
 

It appears that APR has made changes to these DP's over time. This doesn't really surprise me as they typically continue to improve on all of their products, instead of just leaving "good enough". Anyway, looking at the link above, ECS's site, and the pics below, it appears that there are 3 different parts out there. However, the two links could be the same parts, just the angle of the photos makes them look different and the pics below may be of a prototype set that was just being used for a demo at this event. And, if I recall correctly, the cats in those pics don't match to what the APR DP's that were recently installed on a friends car. So, I wonder if the pics on AWE's site are accurate to what APR is currently selling to customers? Also, I would have expected a pic of the AWE DP's in the final comparison regarding the flexpipe - I mean, I thought this was a page about AWE's positives, yet this last comparison seems dedicated just to the negative of the othes - from what they claim, I would have thought at least a pic of their own would be included

<img src="http://ctny.audiworld.com/events/010610atco/mvc430f.jpg">
<img src="http://ctny.audiworld.com/events/010610atco/mvc431f.jpg"><ul><li><a href="http://www.ecstuning.com/00s4downpipepicpage.htm">APR Downpipes on ECS's site</a></li></ul>

AWE used to market Bailey valves in a similar manner.

I reitterate.. I want AWE DP's for $1000.. Okay, so sell me H&R streets and the DP's, let's work
 

on this. Give me a deal damit, I'll keep it quiet an will only say that I ended up paying full retail as no one was willing to make me a deal...

COME ON!!! Other mods might get in the way, then your SOL.. I know there is plenty of margin in these pipes, so do the right thing and kick down! :)

Tory

No, we did not. Nor are we doing that here. You are confusing us with a Forge valve retailer.
 

We've fixed the alt tabs to keep the comparison more polite.

Bailey was the target of a campaign by a Forge reseller when they first brought them into the States. There were references to how they saw a "melted piston in a Bailey Valve - that's bad!".

As far as the last picture in our link, it is difficult to compare the competitor's flex joint to ours, since ours actually flares larger than 2.5" to accomodate the ball gasket. Instead, we chose to show a comparison between same style joints.

The pictures we have look to be identical to the units in MarkP's post.

We will make no apologies for our marketing efforts. There are still lots of people that need an education on what works and what does not.

Todd, it's not obvious in your pics....which "Competitor A" DP's do you have.....
 

Look at the Flex area:
<img src="http://ctny.audiworld.com/events/010610atco/mvc431f.jpg">
or this:
<img src="http://www.ecstuning.com/audi%20mania/00s4downpipe%202.JPG">

The ones we took pictures of look very similar to your bottom photo.

Todd, here was the other difference I was noting...
 

This could just be the angle of the photo. compare teh "large ridge" in each photo. On "A" in your photo it appears to belarge on one side of the flange/pipe and smoother on the other. Where as in the ECS photo, it appears to be centered. Again, this may just be the angel of the photo, but that's what I was mentioning above

<img src="http://www.awe-tuning.com/pages/gallery/awe_s4dp/awe_vs_apr/AWE_vs_APR_UpperDetails_2.jpg">
<img src="http://www.ecstuning.com/audi%20mania/00s4downpipe%202.JPG">

For months after Forge started using aluminum pistons instead of delrin...
 

...you linked from your Bailey page to a post of mine on AudiWorld touting the Bailey's superior product compared to the problematic Forge. That's all. I'm not disputing that your downpipes are a superior product; it's just that in my opinion you are prone to doing comparison marketing against an older version of a competitor's product that has subsequently been improved. The APR downpipes have been revised at least once. I don't know which version those are.

not according to Istook racing....
 

they found that 3" downpipes yielded better performance than stock pipe diameters IIRC... wish I had a link to his post.

The ones we took pictures of actually look better than the ones in your photo.
 

The ones in your photo have even more of a turbulent area at the turbine exit!

Out of curiosity, have you compared to Miltek DPs

Note that the pipes in this picture were purchased within the last 2 months from "A" directly.
 

These are the redesign, as the first version did not have flex joints at all.

As far as our Forge link, we removed that months ago. It was valid at the time.

Either way, we are not ashamed to brag about our designs or the products we choose to use. As you can see from these pictures, upon closer inspection, there is a *huge* difference in the details.

No, we have not seen a set of those in person.
 

We do know that the 100 cell cats they used were causing issues as detailed on our downpipe page.

Yup - with stock turbo's this is the best thing to do...
 

I'm going to try to tackle this job either this weekend, or next ;-) If you can do it yourself, its free ;-) Well, minus a lot of blood, swearing, and some beer :-) Those pre-cats are evil.

Istook is running K04s - how can you compare?

I thought they have the same outlet size...
 

hence S4 dp's are direct bolt on's to K04's.... besides, Don's post was directed toward a K03 downpipe discussion IIRC.

Cool. Just trying to keep you honest...
 

...so how about a combination deal on the downpipes and an RS4 clutch? Say $995 and I slap a big AWE Tuning sticker on my rear window for a year???

Todd, thanks for the replies. One other Q... Do the cats on that set match the pics?
 

On the set purchased "within the last 2 months", do those cats match the ones in the other pics?

For some reason, I recall my buddy's "A" DP's purchased 2.5 months ago, directly from "A", as having different cats - but I could be mistaken.

Hmm, I'm not sure the outlets are the same, since volumetrically, they're pumping more air
 

so I would assume they would need to have slightly larger outlet, no? I know our K03s dont have a K04 exhaust side... so there has to be a size difference...

You have mail.

yeah...
 

I think you're right, I was thinking about the flange size and the overall housing size which I believe are the same. I'm certainly no expert, but I've bought into "bigger is better" regarding turbo exhausts... to a point.

APR's

The only problem I see with something that may be too large
 

which I am not sure any aftermarket ones are 'too' large, is that your exhaust gases will cool pretty early on in the system, thus slowing exhaust flow down...

I look at it this way - hooking up a firehose to your houses spicket (I know it wont fit, but lets pretend for analogy purposes ;-) won't allow the water to flow out any faster, infact it may actually slow down. Now if you use the one that fits properly, you get a higher pressure, meaning it will come out faster... I see this as similarly to exhaust systems... People will tell me its not a good analogy, to compare water + hose = but I think it's conveys the idea...

Right back at 'cha - thanks.

Nice pics, but what's the difference in terms of hp/tq between the two?
 

Will you lose some bottom end tq with bigger dp's in general (with K03's)??

I would love to see a comparison on stock, stock with gutted precats and Awe, Apr, Milltek, RS4 dp's.

So what it comes down to is if you purchase from "A" ya never never
 

never know what you are going to get.

How do you gut dp's?? Does this entail getting rid of any of the cats?? TIA.