Looking to join the club
04-08-2007, 03:51 PM
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Looking to join the club
I recenty entered the car market once again. My stipulations are AWD and turbo. I have been looking to buy either an S4, Evo or STi (In that order). I have spent a bit of time researching S4's (mostly on this forum). I haven't looked as closely at the others. Most here will have a bias opinon on what I should do. My question is more about reliability and ease of modification. Pulling the engine to access the turbos seems a bit heavy. On the other cars it would be a much simpler task. However, the S4 does have plenty that the others don't. Do I spend more initially on an Evo or STi, and have a lesser chance of repair issues? Or, do I spend a bit less initially with plans to spend the differnce on repairs only a short time down the road? I am aware of the common problems with the 2.7T.<i> Everybody </i> can't experience every problem. How common are they?
04-08-2007, 03:57 PM
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I own an Evo and an S4. There are a few more members on this forum who do as well.
Email me if you want my review of each car.
Summary
Evo > S4 in most aspects.
Like I said email me if you want an explanation. Everyone on here will be quick to jump on the Evo and Sti, but how many actually have an unbiased opinion based on ownership experience.
Summary
Evo > S4 in most aspects.
Like I said email me if you want an explanation. Everyone on here will be quick to jump on the Evo and Sti, but how many actually have an unbiased opinion based on ownership experience.
04-08-2007, 04:47 PM
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i have an S4, obviously, and my good friends have an EVO and STI each
i would say its what are you looking for mostly. the S4 is nicer, IMO, and can be fast while remaining classier and smoother. maybe buy a S4 that is already stage 3? then you are paying for a car that already has reliable hardware(turbo's) the common flaws on the 2.7T are pretty common, but also easily conquered if you know what to look at(throttle body boot, F hose, leaky intake piping and intercoolers) etc.
a stage 3 car would have all the little stuff taken care of, and can put a hurting on a lot of cars
good luck in your choice
a stage 3 car would have all the little stuff taken care of, and can put a hurting on a lot of cars
good luck in your choice
04-08-2007, 05:00 PM
#6
Own the S, drive an EVO VIII often...
I consider my opinion of the two cars as un-biased...there are pros and cons to both...
First the EVO VIII... my neighbor owns a very lightly modded EVO. Turbo back exhaust, Tein suspension, intake, wheels, Toyo T1R's..I think that is it. It was a blast to drive when it was stock and is one kick to drive now!
Braking with the big four pot Brembo's is fantastic. Handling is far better than my S. And so are the lightweight Recaro seats. (I would love to put them in my S and they match the Santorin pretty good) It's pretty quick...I wouldn't say Fast, but certainly it's quick. Parts are real cheap...I'd say that the EVO mods cost 30 - 40% of the cost of the same mods on the S.
Tunability? Well there are plenty of things you can do turn the wick up on the EVO and for not that much money.. But it turns an already high strung car into what I would expect would be unbearable. Buy a bike instead.
I could probably live with it as a daily driver but for a few shortcomings.. Lack of torque, totally stripped interior and the wing and front bumper are just way over-cooked for me.
Counter point...The S.
It's a bear to maintain.. Modding parts aren't cheap. You are right that not everyone experiences every problem, and some are expensive to fix. Even some of the basic procedures require pulling the motor and unless you are a really good wrench you'll have to pay someone to do clutches, turbo's, DP's, head gaskets etc all fairly easy to get to on the EVO. If you can find a CPO'd S or score an aftermarket warranty it can help even the score a bit.
But.....the S is a damn great car. She's heavy. But the extra weight is in part due to the higher level of fit and finish.. Look under the dash of the S and you see nothing, it's all sound deadend and finished off. Under the dash of the EVO? You see the back of the speedo. Punch the dash of the S...rock solid. A good shot to the EVO and you will crack something for sure.
The V6 is far more researved than the higher reving four. And anything Stage II+ or better will either out-right crush the EVO or walk it gently.
Braking on the S needs to be addressed. Big Brakes are a blast and look great..and cost near $2000. More aggressive pads are a must, as are good fluid, and lines are a help as well.
Out of the box handling is pretty good, but with the various suspensions available the fun starts.
Stage III? outright fast. Not quick..fast.
I always say the same thing... Four doors, four hundred horses, four wheel drive and four season car...I say that about the S. But that is with a huge amount of modding.
So...
If you want to go the modding route, I believe the end result will be a far better car with the S4. Find a good Stage III car and giggle like a little girl. The EVO will be too uncomfortable for a daily driver.
If you don't plan to go the modding route, or you are on a limited budget...get the EVO. Allocate the cost of the S4's big brake kit towards minor mods and enjoy.
First the EVO VIII... my neighbor owns a very lightly modded EVO. Turbo back exhaust, Tein suspension, intake, wheels, Toyo T1R's..I think that is it. It was a blast to drive when it was stock and is one kick to drive now!
Braking with the big four pot Brembo's is fantastic. Handling is far better than my S. And so are the lightweight Recaro seats. (I would love to put them in my S and they match the Santorin pretty good) It's pretty quick...I wouldn't say Fast, but certainly it's quick. Parts are real cheap...I'd say that the EVO mods cost 30 - 40% of the cost of the same mods on the S.
Tunability? Well there are plenty of things you can do turn the wick up on the EVO and for not that much money.. But it turns an already high strung car into what I would expect would be unbearable. Buy a bike instead.
I could probably live with it as a daily driver but for a few shortcomings.. Lack of torque, totally stripped interior and the wing and front bumper are just way over-cooked for me.
Counter point...The S.
It's a bear to maintain.. Modding parts aren't cheap. You are right that not everyone experiences every problem, and some are expensive to fix. Even some of the basic procedures require pulling the motor and unless you are a really good wrench you'll have to pay someone to do clutches, turbo's, DP's, head gaskets etc all fairly easy to get to on the EVO. If you can find a CPO'd S or score an aftermarket warranty it can help even the score a bit.
But.....the S is a damn great car. She's heavy. But the extra weight is in part due to the higher level of fit and finish.. Look under the dash of the S and you see nothing, it's all sound deadend and finished off. Under the dash of the EVO? You see the back of the speedo. Punch the dash of the S...rock solid. A good shot to the EVO and you will crack something for sure.
The V6 is far more researved than the higher reving four. And anything Stage II+ or better will either out-right crush the EVO or walk it gently.
Braking on the S needs to be addressed. Big Brakes are a blast and look great..and cost near $2000. More aggressive pads are a must, as are good fluid, and lines are a help as well.
Out of the box handling is pretty good, but with the various suspensions available the fun starts.
Stage III? outright fast. Not quick..fast.
I always say the same thing... Four doors, four hundred horses, four wheel drive and four season car...I say that about the S. But that is with a huge amount of modding.
So...
If you want to go the modding route, I believe the end result will be a far better car with the S4. Find a good Stage III car and giggle like a little girl. The EVO will be too uncomfortable for a daily driver.
If you don't plan to go the modding route, or you are on a limited budget...get the EVO. Allocate the cost of the S4's big brake kit towards minor mods and enjoy.
04-08-2007, 05:03 PM
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S4's are nice, Evo's are fast.
I've had the same thougt. It is about what I want. First off, I would have a difficult time buyng a modified car. I love to wrench and it would defeat half of the prpose for buyng the car. I don't know if I want a race car (Evo). It might be time for some class (S4). The main con with the Evo is the lack of options. The interior slacks (not as bad as STi, but compared to an audi).
The boost leak leading to turbo failure is a concern. But what of the water pump and cam seal/valve cover leaks? The seals don't appear to be a difficult fix. Replacing a water pump can be more of a chore.
I appreciate the input. I have some decisions to make. I wasn't necessarily compaing the cars year for year. I would like an 02 S4 or an 03/04 Evo. Will the comparison ever be apples to apples?
The boost leak leading to turbo failure is a concern. But what of the water pump and cam seal/valve cover leaks? The seals don't appear to be a difficult fix. Replacing a water pump can be more of a chore.
I appreciate the input. I have some decisions to make. I wasn't necessarily compaing the cars year for year. I would like an 02 S4 or an 03/04 Evo. Will the comparison ever be apples to apples?
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04-08-2007, 05:06 PM
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wrong placement
I not sure how to quote people or how to post a reply in this forum format. Forgive the noob ish. I think there are better formats available, why is this one being used?
