//scottInSoCal

<b>[people with track experience]</b>
I'm in the market for a FWD car, but I don't really have much experience pushing (pulling?) a FWD car hard. Is understeer inescapable or can you get a good balance with enough rear stiffness? Any other advice for getting more handling performance out of the car?

<b>[people with GTI experience]</b>
I'm looking for a comparison between the handling of a GTI and an S4 (stock or modified). I've pushed my S4 hard, and I have a good idea how it behaves - what am I going to think about a GTI?

Thanks to everyone who replies.

xr8edS4

Out of the box it handles superior and there is an abundance, absolutely astonishing abundance of handling and engine upgrades available. Plus, it's all pretty cheap. In a weekend you can be up and running competitively. I gotta give it Honda for their kickass engine reliability. Have fun with it!

biturbowagon

My brother owns a 2001 GTI VR6. I have a 2001 S4 Avant. Both are stock.

You'll find that each has its strengths and weaknesses.

The GTI is lighter and more nimble. The engine is really sweet--it revs much faster (ligher flywheel?). However, it definitely has softer suspension: it leans a fair amount in turns. It doesn't have much if any torque steer, but there's no mistaking the fact that it's a FWD car.

The S4 feels more solid, and is definitely faster accelerating. It feels more like a luxury car, not that the GTI feels like a toy. It also feels heavier.

The GTI gets significantly better gas mileage, as it should.

If I were shopping for a GTI, I'd be disappointed by the fact that it's not available as a four-door. I suppose most people who want a GTI want the two-door, but I've never understood the appeal of two-door cars unless they're two-seaters (or unless I'm buying *cheap* transportation).

But I digress. You were asking about handling.

I don't track my car (at least not yet), so I'll leave those kinds of 10/10ths questions to others.

HTH.

Pat-SoCal

Pete races a honda civic in NASA enduros. My knowledge of chassis setup is pretty much limited to drag racing and road racing with rear wheel drive, stick-axle cars.

I'll try to give you a ring this weekend and we can discuss some options.

BSW

the only real comments I would have (and keep in mind that I have been on 16" snows almost the whole time) is that the GTi had a softer suspension, but made up for it in lightness, I never felt like I was heaving it around, like I do the S. however, I would say that in a not so tight corner, the S makes up for it in the confidence of the AWD (mash on the gas and the car feels firmer, especially around a wide bend). I often feel like I was hanging onto a corner in th GTi, yet getting propelled through with the S. neither car felt as good as my 85 GLi with a lot of suspension work though. I definitely notice the weight with the S more than anything else...

back to work...

2001 S4 Avant - stock
1998 Gti VR6 - stock
1985 Jetta Gli - springs,shocks,sway bars, tiebars, 15" wheels

CraigB

I was in the M3 with Eibach sway bars and AVS Sports. He had a 150hp '01 GTI with rear sway bar and 16" Kumho R-compunds. I was barely catching back up on the straights. That afternoon at the track is what convinced me to get a GTI. With some suspension work and brakes, it should be one righteous FWD go-cart. 8^)

Stätus Josh

but haven't taken the Gti to the track yet! Torque steer is an issue as is understeer. I have H&R coilovers on the Gti. It sticks to the road very well but you have to drive the car much differently than the S4... If you are gonna track a Gti, PUT A CAGE IN IT! They aren't as safe as the S4 is when rolled.

Stätus Josh

not a gti. But I'm sure they share a lot of similiarities and he has a lot of on track experience with it.

Au

I autocrossed my GTI alot in stock and modified form. Stock, yes the understeer was inescapable. Modified, heck, you turn it into an oversteering monster. If you want to make a Jetta/Scirocco/Golf handle, talk to the guys at Shine Racing in Mass (see link). Their kits work.

As for a comparison of the two in terms of stock handling, the my old GTI (remember this is not a new one) would understeer more than the S4 (yes, that much). BUT, the GTI was much more responsive to throttle changes IN the corner; you could adjust it's attitude much better than with a stock S4. Also, the GTI capitalizes on its lesser mass to transition much more quickly. Good for autocrossing and emergency maneuvers, but perhaps not that noticable everyday.

Keep in mind that it seems like the current-day GTIs are set-up way to soft from the factory (this is just based on magazine reports). It sounds like a suspension is the first thing you need to swap on the GTI.

Oh, and my now modified S4 kicks aS$ in the handling department. No understeer, mid-corner throttle adjustments do something, and 2 x posted limits on on-ramps are no problem, even with snowtires. Not that I'd ever do that . . .<ul><li><a href="http://www.shineracing.com">Unexciting website, good suspensions</a></li></ul>

LJS

I've a '96 GTI--VR6 and have yet to test drive the new one...IMHO---The car has gotten soft!!!!!!(in comparison the the '84 I had) It's too lightly sprung, it has far too much body roll,it needs to go on a diet....the shifter stinks-on-ice...a little pricey for what you get...
On the plus side--they're built like a brick-****-house and provide a bunch of utility...we use ours as our winter car and family "truck"
PS- when it's time for a replacement we'll look elsewhere...the VW's are getting far to expensive for what they offer---my '79 was $4200 OUT THE DOOR--how things change!!!!!