Pete - GIAC a hack. that is about the worst thing that i have seen on the forum. My 2 cent's (more)
10-10-2000, 12:41 PM
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Pete - GIAC a hack. that is about the worst thing that i have seen on the forum. My 2 cent's (more)
Well here it is my two cents. Now I don't know what any of you will think that this is worth but remember that I have had both a Garrett (GIAC) and an APR chip. I also have spoken at great lengths with both tuners and seen the code that is used to make these chips work.
Sure we can call Garrett a hack and we can also call APR and MTM and TAP and Autothority and ABT and on and on and on hacks. There is a simple matter that all of the tuners have to do some hacking. Even if Audi gives any one of the tuners the base code they don't give them the modifications to the code that extract the power. There is no set formula for this. To get it right requires some trial and error. I guess that this might be considered hacking. I think not though, there is some amount of know how that must be possessed to even get the car to run after changing only one byte of the binary maps. I don't think that the tuners are just guessing.
There are very few people in the world that are tuning motronic DME's or ECU's themselves. I am going to go out on a limb and say that there might be 10 to 20 people in the world that are any good at it. The rest of the tuners are buying code from someone and selling it as their own. Also keep in mind that if you don't do it right you are either not going to make any power or you are going to blow up every car that uses your software.
Now that there has been some ragging on Garrett, I think that it is only fair that there be some ragging on MTM. Don't get me wrong I am sure that they make a good product but there are some things that they are not telling you. MTM and Hoppen Motorsports built a huge reputation when they were racing in the rally circuit. They depend on that relationship today to give credit to their products. Their facilities are very small and they don't do any of the extensive R and D that they used to do, nor do they race any longer. They also cannot call themselves the official tuner for AudiSport. In fact the chips that are in the RS4 cars that are driven by Gallati and Bell are superchips. Yep the same ones that people put into thier Chevy 1500 pickup trucks. Does that make MTM bad? No, and it doesn't make any of the other tuners any better either.
I think that MTM, APR and GIAC are all good tuners. I think that anyone should feel safe buying products from any of them with a reasonable amount of confidence.
Keep in mind that all of the above is just my opinion and should not be considered as fact.
Now to Pete at Stratmosphere, if what was stated about you calling Garrett a hack is true, I am appalled. I think that by saying that you have lost some major respect of this forum and I hope that you get the flu.
Sure we can call Garrett a hack and we can also call APR and MTM and TAP and Autothority and ABT and on and on and on hacks. There is a simple matter that all of the tuners have to do some hacking. Even if Audi gives any one of the tuners the base code they don't give them the modifications to the code that extract the power. There is no set formula for this. To get it right requires some trial and error. I guess that this might be considered hacking. I think not though, there is some amount of know how that must be possessed to even get the car to run after changing only one byte of the binary maps. I don't think that the tuners are just guessing.
There are very few people in the world that are tuning motronic DME's or ECU's themselves. I am going to go out on a limb and say that there might be 10 to 20 people in the world that are any good at it. The rest of the tuners are buying code from someone and selling it as their own. Also keep in mind that if you don't do it right you are either not going to make any power or you are going to blow up every car that uses your software.
Now that there has been some ragging on Garrett, I think that it is only fair that there be some ragging on MTM. Don't get me wrong I am sure that they make a good product but there are some things that they are not telling you. MTM and Hoppen Motorsports built a huge reputation when they were racing in the rally circuit. They depend on that relationship today to give credit to their products. Their facilities are very small and they don't do any of the extensive R and D that they used to do, nor do they race any longer. They also cannot call themselves the official tuner for AudiSport. In fact the chips that are in the RS4 cars that are driven by Gallati and Bell are superchips. Yep the same ones that people put into thier Chevy 1500 pickup trucks. Does that make MTM bad? No, and it doesn't make any of the other tuners any better either.
I think that MTM, APR and GIAC are all good tuners. I think that anyone should feel safe buying products from any of them with a reasonable amount of confidence.
Keep in mind that all of the above is just my opinion and should not be considered as fact.
Now to Pete at Stratmosphere, if what was stated about you calling Garrett a hack is true, I am appalled. I think that by saying that you have lost some major respect of this forum and I hope that you get the flu.
10-10-2000, 12:53 PM
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Nice curse: "I hope that you get the flu" - LOL ... about Superchips & Galati/Bell???
Are you sure about Galati and Bell? All of the Speedvision cars have Superchips listed as a sponser of the race on their car. Does this mean they're all running Superchips?
10-10-2000, 12:56 PM
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Actually Gallati and Bell do not use Bosch
at all. They are using a racing engine management system for "political reasons". Superchips are a sponser of the series only. I hope this clears this up.
Stephen/APR
1-800-680-7921
Stephen/APR
1-800-680-7921
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10-10-2000, 01:10 PM
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My long diatribes on chipping and experience with chips...
Have all lead to the conclusion that Garett Lim knows more about chips and software engine control than anyone I have talked to in or out of the business. Is he a Bosch-level designer? Nope. Is he some moron hack with a .8 bar kludge? Nope.
He is a tech-level hacker and knows his business. He knows the strengths and weaknesses of his work and the work of others. He has never lied about his product and was always clear about the potential problems.
He is a tech-level hacker and knows his business. He knows the strengths and weaknesses of his work and the work of others. He has never lied about his product and was always clear about the potential problems.
10-10-2000, 01:23 PM
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Chips and perception...more to the point
I forgot to add. Each chip has a fairly different profile. I couldn't care less about hp, torque is what I love for the street. The dyno numbers are just the static profile, not what happens dynamically. The point is that each tuner really has a different market and this back-stabbing is pointless.