Questions regarding LEVEL10 upgrades for those who have done it.
07-09-2004, 03:34 PM
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Questions regarding LEVEL10 upgrades for those who have done it.
*How much did it cost?
*What parts are upgraded?
*Does the upgrade work with a tip chip?
*What's the maximum torque load that the tranny can handle with the Level10 upgrade?
*Did you do the upgrade yourselves?
*Were driveshafts upgraded as well?
This are some preliminary questions that I had. Reason I ask, is that I want more power in my A6 4.2. I am looking into twin turboing my car, set up similarly like the RS6. I know it can be done, but the problem lies in the transmission. The tranny for the 4.2 has a max torque load of 310lb-ft. The transmission has to be stronger than the RS6's tranny. There are already 2 reported cases on the RS6 forum of tranny's blowing. Thanks!
<a href="https://forums.audiworld.com/s4/msgs/1698669.phtml">Original post</a>
*What parts are upgraded?
*Does the upgrade work with a tip chip?
*What's the maximum torque load that the tranny can handle with the Level10 upgrade?
*Did you do the upgrade yourselves?
*Were driveshafts upgraded as well?
This are some preliminary questions that I had. Reason I ask, is that I want more power in my A6 4.2. I am looking into twin turboing my car, set up similarly like the RS6. I know it can be done, but the problem lies in the transmission. The tranny for the 4.2 has a max torque load of 310lb-ft. The transmission has to be stronger than the RS6's tranny. There are already 2 reported cases on the RS6 forum of tranny's blowing. Thanks!
<a href="https://forums.audiworld.com/s4/msgs/1698669.phtml">Original post</a>
07-09-2004, 04:03 PM
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Since Michael is still not here....
I think I can post some e-mails about that Michael had told me...
Here are the contents of the mails:
------------------------------------------------
Your concerns:
> 1. Which kind of TCU will you run with your level10 tranny? Do I need
> to send my TCU back to Sportec for custom made again?
I am running a standard TCU. If I need custom code, I will get it, but
my APR Stage III ECU code works fine with the standard TCU and Level10
Trans. However, to really benefit from the trans work, you will need
to get some "real" Stage III code in your ECU. The ECU code you have
is very likely detuned to conserve the stock transmission. Remember,
there is a TCU, and an ECU. The other guy with a Level10 S4 runs a
GIAC TipChip ECU, also with no problems. His ECU is Revo, but he
doesn't have the correct injectors, so it's custom for him.
Do you know what the last letter of your ECU part number is? It's
probably B, J, L, or AA?
> 2. Do you really pull your car hard with this tranny? How's your
> comment with it? Dose it run smooth?any gear hunting??
My car pulls hard, and will probably be faster than most six-speeds
because the Level10 shifts very quickly, and holds boost during shifts.
It isn't harsh, but the shift from Neutral to Drive is a bit harder,
until you get used to lifting off the brake a bit. (This is true with
all race-built automatics.) Everything else is the same. I have not
experienced any hunting, but that is a function of APR's ECU code.
> 3. How is the sepc of your level10 tranny (torque/hp)? and how can I
> order my own tranny from level10's lists?
Level10 specs our transmissions to hold 800 pounds of torque, so we're
very safe with any Stage III or beyond.
-------------------------------------------------
the other one:
-------------------------------------------------
Hi Jimmy,
My car has been "finished" for about a week. I love driving it. At
first, the transmission was a bit stiff in transition from Neutral to
Drive, but it smoothed out after a day or two. (Sam explained that
this is normal.) The gearbox really is amazing. When driven normally,
everything feel stock. When I "jump on the gas" the car really lights
up. Shifts are much crisper and quicker than before. Also, kickdown
is much faster. I have no worries about abusing this transmission.
Even at full power, with K04s pushing 1.4 to 1.5 BAR, the gearbox is
solid, and asks for more!
Let's see... My software was created for me in particular, by APR.
Fortunately for you, I have a J Box ECU as well, so they already have
the finished code for your car. (Actually, Matt@APR and I still plan
to do a little more tuning for it, next month, but it's a BEAST
already. We merely copied the six speed Stage III tables to tiptronic.
I will be on the dyno with it on Saturday. I'm glad you have a J Box,
because you could use the same code and won't have to wait. It has
special profiles for 91, 93, 100, and 104 octane all on one chip.) I'm
not sure, but I think if you wish to use this APR code, you will need
the rest of the RS4 components that normally come with the APR Stage
III kit. This includes: RS4 MAF, RS4 Airbox, RS4 Injectors, RS4
Y-Pipe, and RS4 Fuel Pump, plus some additional plumbing bits. The APR
site shows the whole kit, but they also do sell it without the turbos,
since you already have those. I think your Sportec injectors would
need to be replaced, unless they are really RS4s) The other good thing
about APR is that you can use a "Home Programmer" which means you won't
have to send your chipped ECU back for updates when there is new code.
All you need is a file, sent by e-mail, which can be uploaded by you,
to the chip in your ECU. This would be great since you live in Taiwan.
VTune will soon be available for APR ECUs as well... This allows you
to add or subtract timing and/or boost as you wish, using a laptop and
the OBDII port.
-------------------------------------------------
and the e-mail from BLK01S4, the first level10 S4 user:
-------------------------------------------------
Jimmy,
Hey sorry it took so long for a reply , yes I was the 1st one to do the
Level10 mod with K04's
1. Level 10 Tranny works good for everyday use don't get a stall converter
above 2800 or it will be undriveable I tried it , i got a 3500 it was like
driving a top fuel dragster (IE Not fun)
2. My TCU is programmed by GIAC it works good so far I will probably help
mike (Skydives4) and Sportec develop a new one for our setup
3. Make sure you get an oil cooler and a tranny cooler, and an APR snub
mount
-------------------------------------------------
They are parts of discussion contents. Hope these will help you before Michael's answer.
About the price, I don't know if I can tell you on here cause we gonna have a pretty deal with level10.
Here are the contents of the mails:
------------------------------------------------
Your concerns:
> 1. Which kind of TCU will you run with your level10 tranny? Do I need
> to send my TCU back to Sportec for custom made again?
I am running a standard TCU. If I need custom code, I will get it, but
my APR Stage III ECU code works fine with the standard TCU and Level10
Trans. However, to really benefit from the trans work, you will need
to get some "real" Stage III code in your ECU. The ECU code you have
is very likely detuned to conserve the stock transmission. Remember,
there is a TCU, and an ECU. The other guy with a Level10 S4 runs a
GIAC TipChip ECU, also with no problems. His ECU is Revo, but he
doesn't have the correct injectors, so it's custom for him.
Do you know what the last letter of your ECU part number is? It's
probably B, J, L, or AA?
> 2. Do you really pull your car hard with this tranny? How's your
> comment with it? Dose it run smooth?any gear hunting??
My car pulls hard, and will probably be faster than most six-speeds
because the Level10 shifts very quickly, and holds boost during shifts.
It isn't harsh, but the shift from Neutral to Drive is a bit harder,
until you get used to lifting off the brake a bit. (This is true with
all race-built automatics.) Everything else is the same. I have not
experienced any hunting, but that is a function of APR's ECU code.
> 3. How is the sepc of your level10 tranny (torque/hp)? and how can I
> order my own tranny from level10's lists?
Level10 specs our transmissions to hold 800 pounds of torque, so we're
very safe with any Stage III or beyond.
-------------------------------------------------
the other one:
-------------------------------------------------
Hi Jimmy,
My car has been "finished" for about a week. I love driving it. At
first, the transmission was a bit stiff in transition from Neutral to
Drive, but it smoothed out after a day or two. (Sam explained that
this is normal.) The gearbox really is amazing. When driven normally,
everything feel stock. When I "jump on the gas" the car really lights
up. Shifts are much crisper and quicker than before. Also, kickdown
is much faster. I have no worries about abusing this transmission.
Even at full power, with K04s pushing 1.4 to 1.5 BAR, the gearbox is
solid, and asks for more!
Let's see... My software was created for me in particular, by APR.
Fortunately for you, I have a J Box ECU as well, so they already have
the finished code for your car. (Actually, Matt@APR and I still plan
to do a little more tuning for it, next month, but it's a BEAST
already. We merely copied the six speed Stage III tables to tiptronic.
I will be on the dyno with it on Saturday. I'm glad you have a J Box,
because you could use the same code and won't have to wait. It has
special profiles for 91, 93, 100, and 104 octane all on one chip.) I'm
not sure, but I think if you wish to use this APR code, you will need
the rest of the RS4 components that normally come with the APR Stage
III kit. This includes: RS4 MAF, RS4 Airbox, RS4 Injectors, RS4
Y-Pipe, and RS4 Fuel Pump, plus some additional plumbing bits. The APR
site shows the whole kit, but they also do sell it without the turbos,
since you already have those. I think your Sportec injectors would
need to be replaced, unless they are really RS4s) The other good thing
about APR is that you can use a "Home Programmer" which means you won't
have to send your chipped ECU back for updates when there is new code.
All you need is a file, sent by e-mail, which can be uploaded by you,
to the chip in your ECU. This would be great since you live in Taiwan.
VTune will soon be available for APR ECUs as well... This allows you
to add or subtract timing and/or boost as you wish, using a laptop and
the OBDII port.
-------------------------------------------------
and the e-mail from BLK01S4, the first level10 S4 user:
-------------------------------------------------
Jimmy,
Hey sorry it took so long for a reply , yes I was the 1st one to do the
Level10 mod with K04's
1. Level 10 Tranny works good for everyday use don't get a stall converter
above 2800 or it will be undriveable I tried it , i got a 3500 it was like
driving a top fuel dragster (IE Not fun)
2. My TCU is programmed by GIAC it works good so far I will probably help
mike (Skydives4) and Sportec develop a new one for our setup
3. Make sure you get an oil cooler and a tranny cooler, and an APR snub
mount
-------------------------------------------------
They are parts of discussion contents. Hope these will help you before Michael's answer.
About the price, I don't know if I can tell you on here cause we gonna have a pretty deal with level10.
07-09-2004, 06:14 PM
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Thank you for posting these emails...
what BLK01S4 (see above) may not realize is that some of us Tip guys will "have to" upgrade to Level 10 one day, unless we want to go the 6 speed conversion route (even more difficult). Once the K03's blow and K04's are installed, the tranny will have to be upgraded (unless we put in K03's again, which won't happen). Also, selling one's car and buying another one (with all that would entail) would probably for most people be a much bigger pain in the *** than upgrading the tranny; after first having to demod your ride and sell it and eveything off, you'd then have to start all over again, finding all the mods, doing all the installs... no thanks!
