phe

I have currently an order on a new RS4.
The key point on this car are the new brakes.
I am really thinking about cancelling. Isn't it better to finish to upgrade my s4

What could be better RS4 or S4 MTM kit-370hp, GT2 brakes, BBS 18/8.5,.. ?

Alan

I also have an RS4 on order (#99 in the UK).
I sold my modified S4 Avant (313bhp 504Nm chipped, lowered 30mm and re-damped suspension) last November.
The RS4 is NOT simply a "chipped" S4 with better brakes.
There are many other modifications such as different turbos, intercoolers and many engine internals and components.
There is rumour that MTM offer (but nothing official on their website) more than their 306bhp conversion, at around £8000, but this is only modified turbos, intercoolers, chip and suspension, as far as I know, the engine modifications the RS4 has are not carried out.
It depends at the end of the day on finances, I suppose...you could almost certainly modify your S4 to 370bhp for less money than the change to the RS4...but the engine will probably not last as well!
Also...bear in mind...the "stock" RS4 comes with all of these improvements AND 380bhp...all this BEFORE you take it to MTM like I'm going to ;-)
Perhaps see you there!

phe

Sorry I do not have time to format. If you copy and paste to a text editor it should be more readable. I still think that the key (after the money) are the brakes performance. A S4 with 420hp! They have applied the same king of modifications in the RS4.


S4 2,7 T 265 HP AGB Avant / Limousine - Quattro

Pricelist: Stand April 2000
Components Description without Tax inclusive Tax Euro Order number

306 HP (225 kW) Modified -motronic computer with improved torque over all RPM (exchange price) 2.577,59 DM 2.990,00 DM € 1.528,76 M-0S4 265 306
Installation time about 1,5 hrs 137,93 DM 160,00 DM € 81,81
320 HP (235 kW) like 306 HP version with additional rear and middle exhaust system in stainless steel 4.715,52 DM 5.4700,00 DM € 2.796,77 M-0S4 265 320
Installation time about 5 hrs 560,35 DM 650,00 DM € 332,34
345 HP (254 kW) like 320 HP version with stainless steel exhaust system from turbo on and metalkats 11.379,31 DM 13.200,00 DM € 6.749,09 M-0S4 265 345
Installation time about 9 hrs 1.120,70 DM 1.300,00 DM € 664,68
370 HP (272 kW) like 345 HP version with additional turbochargers including installation time 22.573,28 DM 26.185,00 DM € 13.388,18 M-0S4 265 370
420 HP (309 kW) like 370 HP version with additional cast- exhaustmanifold and modified cylinder head 40.086,21 DM 46.500,00 DM € 23.775,10 M-0S4 265 420
Exhaust system: -rear exhaust system in stainless steel with twin tailpipes Ø 70 mm 853,45 DM 990,00 DM € 506,18 M-0A4 253 013
-middle and rear exhaust sytem in stainless steel fitting with series kat 2.137,93 DM 2.480,00 DM € 1.268,00 M-0S4 253 213
Supension kit: -spring set about 25 mm lowered 681,03 DM 790,00 DM € 403,92 M-0S4 020 000
Spring instalation and adjustment Limousine
Avant 731,90 DM
766,38 DM 849,00 DM
889,00 DM € 434,09
€ 454,54
-complete suspension kit for the sporting driver. Front height adjustable to 50mm 2.405,17 DM 2.790,00 DM € 1.426,50 M-0S4 050 10Q
Suspension instalation and adjustment
Limousine
Avant
887,07 DM
912,93 DM
1.029,00 DM
1.059,00 DM
€ 526,12
€ 541,46
Brakes: -brake kit for the front axle 322 mm x 32 mm inkl. adaptor, brakedisc and brake caliper, Requires 17“ or larger wheels 5.336,21 DM 6.190,00 DM € 3.164,90 M-0A4 BRE 322
Installation time about 3 hrs. 275,86 DM 320,00 DM € 163,61
-brake kit for the front axle 330 mm x 32 mm inkl. adaptor, brakedisc and brake caliper, Requires 17“ or larger wheels 5.853,45 DM 6.790,00 DM € 3.471,67 M-0A4 BRE 330
Installation time about 3 hrs. 275,86 DM 320,00 DM € 163,61
-Stahlflexpipekit 600,00 DM 696,00 DM € 355,86 M-0S4 STA F01
Pagit-Brakepads for a better braking performance for front axle 387,07 DM 449,00 DM € 229,57 M-PAG HP2 SVA
M-PAG HP2 AVA
Pagit-Brakepads for a better braking performance for rear axle 300,86 DM 349,00 DM € 178,44 M-PAG HP2 SHA
M-PAG HP2 AHA
Wheels: BBS-forcedwheel 8,5 x 18“ in „cross-spoke“ design 2.500,00 DM 2.900,00 DM € 1.482,75 M-BBS 858 000
BBS-forcedwheel 8,5 x 18“ in „cross-spoke“ design with Dunlop SP 9000
tyre: 225/40 x 18“ kit 5.000,00 DM 5.800,00 DM € 2.965,49 M-BBS 858 D25
Installation and adjustment 188,79 DM 219,00 DM € 111,97
-spacers for increasing wheel track 30mm per side, incl. wheel screws 275,00 DM 319,00 DM € 163,10 M-MTM 015 015
Fitting and balancing and checking clearances per set 188,79 DM 219,00 DM € 111,97
Body sytling: -front spoiler inc. mesh grills, finished in primer 1.370,69 DM 1.590,00 DM € 812,96 M-0A4 FS1 000
-front spoiler carbon fibre lip 206,90 DM 240,00 DM € 122,71 M-0A4 FS1 KFL
Painting front spoiler and fitting 508,62 DM 590,00 DM € 301,66 M-0A4 FS1 RAL
Fitting front spoiler to car 3.5 hrs. 318,97 DM 370,00 DM € 189,18
Special modificiations on uest. We are available to answer technical questions. 1 year guarantee on all parts.
Every modification is TÜV approved. Horsepower ratings are approximate but follow the requirements of Euro 2 G:92/97 law.

Alan

Although they make no mention of internal engine modifications. If you look at this site : www.rs4.org
You will see somewhere (I think it's in the "pictures" or "articles" section) an article in which all of the re-designed parts of the RS4 are laid out.
There are a lot, and, more importantly, a lot of internal engine parts, ie pistons, pushrods etc.
I just wonder if the MTM 420 bhp conversion includes all of this work...I think not.

ChrisP

I was wondering what you guys over in Europe think of MTM?

Brett / APR

Most of the internal modifications were emissions mandated NOT performance or structurally mandated. This especially includes the change in pistons (lower-compression). This is similar to what Audi did on the 225TT, lower the compression ratio to meet emissions requirements. The five-valve cylinder head is absolutely horrible from an emissions standpoint but superb from a performance standpoint (very high BMEP's). From a performance standpoint, the higher compression ratio of the S4 is preferred. As usual, many of these changes have been played off as 'improvements' when they are actually emissions mandated changes. That is not to say that there are not improvements on the RS4 engine, there are many: intake manifold, camshafts, and intake plumbing are the most significant engine improvements. However, internal engine improvements are not as significant as they may seem.

Brett
APR

phe

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Alan

They're the best...with the greatest respect to APR etc...whom we don't see much of :-)

paul ag-audi

they are good,but only if you take your car directly to them.if you are in the uk don't use one of their agents as they don't have the facilities and technical know how to set the engine up right.be very carefull of an agent that cannot provide you with a dyno printout of your cars performance,how do you know your 306 bhp chip is giving you 306 bhp.