2016S6White

I want to derive multiple scenarios for people who are thinking about tuning the S6 to try and pull out numbers like the RS6/7 or the S8. Now, I know that there is a big difference between the S6/S7, RS6/7, and the S8. However, I want to take a look at some information to see what is the actual difference.

1. According to Car and Driver 2016 S6
Weight: 4389
0-60: 3.9
406 lb-ft
450 HP

2. According to Car and Driver 2016 S7
Weight: 4508
0-60: 4.1
406 lb-ft
450 HP
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3. According to Topseepd.com 2016 RS6 (Not Sold in USA)
Weight: ????
0-60: 3.7
516 lb-ft
650 HP

4. According to Car and Driver 2016 RS7
Weight: 4497
0-60: 3.9
516 lb-ft
560 HP
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5. According to Car and Driver 2016 S8
Weight: 4611
0-60: 3.5
553 lb-ft
605 HP


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What are the internal engine component differences?

m444

m444

dgbaudiphile

This may add some color since we're really only concerned with post-mod performance vs. the RS7/S8 engine. On the left is the S6/S7. On the right is the S8. On the top is Stage II (+cat-back), on the bottom, Stage 1 (ECU flash only). The primary difference in the output performance is turbo size. This is apparent at the higher rev ranges (where you'll be after 2nd gear). The smaller turbos in the S6/S7 can't push enough air at high rev ranges. It reminds me of my old 2.7T (A6). Off the line, I swear it almost bunny-hopped to 60" but then you could really feel it come off the boost after 4,000 rpm. If you really want to get serious about upgrades for the S6/S7, you can upgrade the turbos but you'll really start pushing the block, internals, cooling, fuel pump, etc. as they weren't designed for this kind of power as illustrated in the prior post example.



S6 (left) vs S8 (right) for both Stage II and Stage 1 APR

2016S6White

Food for thought...
1. At what point does the engine in the S6 become "meantime before failure" tuning and adding performance items. Not to mention the additional stress on the transmission?
2. If it is designed @ "420hp" for longevity, then what would constitute reliability, with increased HP/TRQ?
a. Maybe 550hp / 600trq?
b. Maybe 500hp / 550trq?
c. Possibly 600hp / 700trq?

Basing the numbers off the STOCK dyno listed above (NOT the 420hp as advertised):
Percentages of horses increase baseline of 480Hp:
1. With a 4.17% Horsepower increase, it gives the S6 500Hp
2. With a 14.58% Horsepower increase, it gives the S6 550Hp
3. With a 22.48% Horsepower increase, it gives the S6 590Hp
4. With a 25% Horsepower increase, it gives the S6 600Hp
5. With a 31.25% Horsepower increase, it gives the S6 630Hp

----The Stage 1 listed above in the dyne picture gave our S6 a 17.3% Horsepower increase and a 39.02% torque increase. The Stage 2 listed above gave our S6 a 22.08% horsepower increase and a 53.88% torque increase.

To get the S6 into the range of the RS / S8 models, we would have to tune / add items to account for at least a 22.48% increase in horsepower, which would drop the reliability how much? I wouldn't think a lot of reliability would suffer for only 22.48% increase in power.

The cost of a 2016 S6 is around $40,000 - $50,000. Add the turbos for $5,500 and a ECU/TCU tune for say $2,000, now your at $47,500 to $57,500. I have seen some used S8's for $55,000 with 48k miles on them. HOWEVER, most S8's in the "affordable range" are out of warranty where as the S6 should be a CPO with some remainder regular warranty left.

Pros / cons?? Thoughts??

m444

"1. At what point does the engine in the S6 become "meantime before failure" tuning and adding performance items. Not to mention the additional stress on the transmission?"

This is information Audi engineering probably has access to, but is not likely to publish. I have not seen any info from Audi indicating the reliability guardbands used to determine reliability specification limits. The ECU stage 1 tuning is already pushing the S6/7 beyond the DL501/511 specified DSG transmission torque limit of 406 ft-lb,

"2. If it is designed @ "420hp" for longevity, then what would constitute reliability, with increased HP/TRQ?"

The 420 HP number was used for the 2013, 2014, 2015 S6/S7 models, but the S6/7 spec was changed to 450hp from 2016 onward.

The RS7 and S8 have lower static compression, so they can push more boost on 91 octane fuel, without early detonation. Using the larger turbo on the S6/7 does not help much when using 91 octane fuel. One needs higher octane (93-104) to get much benefit from the larger turbos. The larger turbos also cause more low RPM turbo lag due to the larger turbine mass.

There have been many S6/S7 on stage 1 or 2 ECU tune, that have NOT had motor or transmission failures. I have the Stage 1 ECU & TCU tune.

The S8 & RS7 engines with lowered static compression, also have heat treated engine blocks and larger main bearing journal size. This is obviously intended for reliability reasons.

There have been a number of S6/S7 turbo failures and Stock and ECU tuned cars, especially on 2013 models and a few 2014 models. There is a TSB on Turbo failure for all the S6/S7/RS7/S8 family 2013 to 2016.


"* Leaks in intake tract allowing outside unfiltered air and debris into the turbocharger
* Poor oil supply of turbocharger"