MikeS6

Yea from what I understand Lexus has identified and "image" problem that they feel have slowed their growth, or could be potentially dangerous soon for them. That is that they seem to have the reputation of being a brand for the 55+ over market, and especially the 65+ market. Buyers don't feel that Lexus has a youthful, exhilarating model line up. Thus if your a male, that is 20-55 you would rarely consider a Lexus. You(OP) pointed out the AMG & RS don't compare to the GS F, I understand that, I said that Lexus had a feature to "compare to competitors" that gave me Audi's comparable model, which they think is the S6. (among others) I don't know anything about the Lexus brand, except that they do a **** ton of advertising. I had always got the impression that usually if you compared comparable models cross brands, that Lexus had a reputation to deliver more value behind the price paid for similar models, but that's from what I understood from Lexus. Perhaps this feature just does exactly what you basically said. That being; that Lexus just got into performance models, and have a ways to go before they can directly compete toe-to-toe.

Sanjman

I'm sure the long block has a potential for more HP/TQ in the aftermarket world. Once they start keeping their performance engines common, aftermarket engineering would be willing to rev up on investing in it. Until then, I would consider lack of aftermarket parts as a negative point along with not being AWD and lacking in aesthetics. I know that most will say that Audi isn't different, but looking at the GS-F, it still reminds me of the look of a corolla. Even though Corollas and Camrys are their volume cars, I yawn when thinking anything Toyota or Lexus these days... definitely miss the 80s/90s.... Supras, MR-2s.

subterFUSE

In the 1990s, Japan was really ahead of their time when it came to car designs.

The 1991-1995 Acura Legend Coupe, the Acura NSX, the Toyota Supra. All of these cars had incredible looking designs.

Acura really screwed the pooch when they killed the Legend and replaced it with the RL and TL lineup. Those cars took the visual image of Acura from class-leading, sexy, luxury sport sedans/coupes to downright boring, bland, Lexus wanna-bes.

Lexus has always been boring on the styling. In the past few years we have seen Lexus trying to make their cars look more aggressive, with more angular shapes that look more aerodynamic. But they are still just trying to feel their way into this new role. They aren't quite there yet, and I'm not totally sure they have the courage to ditch their frumpy genetics completely. Also, the Lexus interiors are bland enough to put anyone into a coma. That brand new GS I drive recently was shockingly bad. The NAV/Infotainment system was clunky and confusing to operate. The buttons for various controls were in poor locations, such as behind the cupholder door when it's open. I wanted to lower the rear sun shade and couldn't find the button for it for about 2 minutes until I figured out I had to close the cup holder door and the button was behind it.

And the drive...... ugh. No power. No feeling. It was like Lexus extracted my soul before I got in the car. The world looked like an old black & white movie. It was depressing.

The only good part about driving that Lexus for a day was getting back into my Audi. Man, you REALLY appreciate a German car even more when you have to drive something else.

stampede253

Lexus has definitely been trying to become more aggressive with their design language--but unfortunately they've over-styled. Way too much going on. The current gen IS has really grown on me--but its interior--and that of the GS as well, are just not doing it for me. The auto editors rave on and on about Lexus interiors--but I just don't see what all the fuss is about. Our Audis are frequently criticized for being too conservative--but those who appreciate and understand design need only take a closer look to understand the beauty of our cars. Where Lexus is hard to beat, however, is resale value--deserved or not. It's pretty impressive (along with most Toyotas). But I don't buy for resale value, and my Audis have all held their value well enough to keep me coming back. In all other dynamics--including interior, performance and that "look back after I've walked away" appeal--Audi checks every box.

StormRyu

I'm curious, What GS did you drive? Because no one who has driven the GSF has said it has no power, that I have seen. If you're talking about the GS 350 or 200t compared to the S6, then I'd understand. Granted the S6 has more torque than the GSF (406 lb/ft to 389 lb/ft), the GSF has more hp than the S6 (467HP to 450 HP).

They're about in the same park as power. The difference is the audi's better low end torque,quattro and then the technology Audi has that Lexus doesn't offer.

subterFUSE

It was a GS 350 loaner from the dealer. I realize a GSF would be more power, but it's not going to cure the slushy Japanese road feel, or poorly laid out interior and terrible infotainment system.

Japanese cars do not have the genetics to compete with German cars when it comes to driving feel. It's that simple.

StormRyu

I agree, the infotainment is really under par. And even that is under stating. It's clunky, with missing features that I believe a lot of people buying into that range, would want. The mouse like cursor, I personally don't like and I have read that many Lexus owners don't like either.

But how can you say that without having driven the performance model, as far as Slush feeling? Which will have better tires, better suspension set up, better computer tuning, and the new Torque vectoring diff they put into it? All those things dramatically change the car from its lesser economical sibling (which i'm sure we all know). Lexus doesn't have the broad range of models/performance models that Audi has been making for years over all. For instance the (for mid size) A6/S6/RS6/A7/S7/RS7. Lexus only has the GS 200t, 350 and GSF.

I mean This is only Lexus' thrid "S" type car in its history, because they have nothing to compete to the RS6/M5. They're just beginning to make performance cars, and as much as the looks are polarizing to some, I don't believe Lexus is as far behind as it was before in terms of driving ability/performance (The Performance models). Germans are the clear cut #1 in today's overall driving feel/performance, no doubt about it. But I don't believe Lexus is so far behind like it was years ago when it just made the first generation ISF. They're not hot on the heels of the Germans, but they're improving, which I think a lot of people don't believe.

I'm not trying to start an argument, for I love both brands and understand people have their own feelings about things in life, which is no problem. Just for sake of conversation.

MikeS6

What also surprises me is the cost difference a similarly equipped GSF is still thousands higher than the S6, I do see a lot more standard alacantara splashed all inside the GSF, but why the more expensive price for the GSF?

StormRyu

Also comes with more standard safety features compared to some competitors (back up camera, I believe full range cruise control, some other things I can't remember unfortunately). Honestly the consensus on Club Lexus, is that they were/are definitely overpriced at its current offering. Less Tech (because they don't offer it yet) accounts for a decent sized reason why people think that. Other reasons vary by person. Most think that it should cost around 68k~75k NEW (only options to really add are a special orange break caliper and Mark Levinson sound system). Now that the prices are going down on the non sold models, they are selling a bit better but still not as quickly as Lexus would like, I imagine. Same thing was the case with the RCF.

semperfi91

I had the pleasure of test driving both of these vehicles this weekend over in Seattle (had to go to the Griffey night at Safeco Field on Friday).

I used to own an A6 wagon and upgraded to the Q7 TDI which will be bought back soon.

My girlfriend and I stopped by the Audi dealership in the U District and asked if they had an S6 available for a test drive after explaining that I am a current owner of the TDI and will be purchasing one soon. Brad said they had a bunch of A6's available, but not an S6. So we decided to take the A6 3.0 Supercharged out for a drive around the U District and up I-5. Felt great! Smooth and quick and much different than what I've been used to for the last two years.

We get back to the dealership and Brad says "lemme check to see if there's an S6 in Lynnwood". He comes back and tells me that they just got a 2016 S6 there in Seattle so back out on the road we go with that one. Much different than the A6. The sound was what really got me. We took that out for a spin around the block as I-5 was pretty much a parking lot. Not a lot of seat time, but pretty awesome none the less.

After lunch, we stopped by the Lexus dealership. I wanted to compare apples to apples so I just asked the guy if they had a car with a minimum of 450 HP. The guy said they have the GS F with 467 HP. I asked if they had one to drive and he said they had a 2016 available. So out on the road we went. Put the car in Sport + mode for the drive. The heads up display not only shows you the speed that you're going, but also a little mini speed limit sign of the road that you're on. And when you go past a speed limit sign on the road, the HUD changes as soon as you pass it. I thought that was pretty cool. I was not a fan of the little mouse that you use to navigate your way around the computer screen to change radio stations and what not. I will say the thing that I liked much better on the Lexus over the S6 was the sound. I really thought that the sound of the S6 was great. The GS F was awesome! As far as performance went, I couldn't say one was better than the other as I really couldn't open up the S6. I did, however, take the GS F up I-405 north quite a ways and was astonished at the responsiveness. It was truly a test ride like I haven't done before. They had a 2016 available for $71,900 which was the same price as the 2016 S6 I test drove.

Overall, I liked the interior of the S6 better (possibly becuz I've got the Q7 and just know it better). Both are extremely fast obviously. I'd pick the GS F for the sound of the engine for sure. I know I could get a Milltek exhaust upgrade for the S6 which would really make it sound great, but just stock sound, the Lexus had me.

Great two cars to drive though!

p.s. - Audi of Seattle has 1 of 50 of the new RS7 for only $147k. Absolutely breaktakingly gorgeous!