fullspeed

Considering buying my first ever Audi after owning 6 BMWs. The S5 Sportback and 440i Gran Coupe are natural rivals, and I'm still very much on the fence with the decision. Performance, style, quality, cost, size, features...all quite close.

I've driven both. Well, no S5 Sportback yet because it hasn't arrived - but I drove a new S5 Coupe and I suspect it'll feel very similar to the SB from the front seats forward. I really liked both rigs, and can see myself buying either. Wifey won't seem to sign off on me buying both. BMW felt familiar and intuitive because that's what I'm used to. Audi felt modern and exciting.

If you cross shopped these two, what closed the deal on the S5 for you??

synergize

I cannot comment on owning an Audi as I am seeking my first S5. However, can you comment if you felt any understeer and the overall performance of the S5. Did you flog the car or just take a leisurely drive with the salesmen? Was the car effortless and how did it manage turns, where the brakes good, notice any turbo lag? The M2 is also on my shortlist, but the car is so tiny!

hinckley

fullspeed, I may some pretty relevant feedback for you.

I drove MT BMW 5-Series since the mid-80s. I love the cars and the brand, but got turned off as the cars grew in size and weight, and moved towards luxury over performance. So I moved to an MT Audi S4 about six years. Great, great car. I shouldn't have sold it. But I did, and last year I bought the first non-MT car of my 40 years of car buying - a beautiful S6 that is also big and heavy. It was a mistake for me, so I'm on the move again.

I started thinking about the new S4 and then the S5 Sportback. I test drove an S4 and an S5 Coupe, and placed an order for a SB. It gets me back to a smaller more nimble car, although I'd still be giving up the MT. Then, over the past couple of days, I've really looked closely at the newly arriving A5 SBs. I don't love them. I can't quite explain it, but in person, the car looks very small (almost toy-ish) to me. It just doesn't seem substantial. I found ingress difficult compared to both the S5 Coupe and S4 Sedan. It just didn't have the wow factor I had anticipated.

So then I went back over to BMW and drove a new (LCI) 440 today, and I loved it. It was like coming home again - and I could get back into an MT. I'm pretty sure that I'm going to cancel my S5 SB order tomorrow and buy the BMW. But here's where this post may get crazy . . . I don't necessarily recommend the BMW for you since I know that MTs are not important for you (because you're considering a GC).

I'd recommend that you first go to an Audi dealer and look at an A5 SB. The cars are out there now. If unlike me, you like the style and functionality, I think it has the following superior attributes to the 440i xDrive GranCoupe:

• The S5 will have better driving dynamics, especially if you go for the S Sport Package with the sport diff
• The S5 has a much, much nicer interior than the BMW (I'm going to add the $4000 merino leather interior option to put lipstick on the 440's insides)
• The S5 has current-gen technology. The BMW is now a generation behind (although in general, I do prefer BMW's tech and iDrive to Audi's and its MMI).

I got scared off after looking at the A5 SB and went running back to the familiarity and MT of BMW. If that doesn't happen to you, I think the Audi's the better bet. Sounds crazy I know.

fullspeed

I did have the salesman in the backseat, so I didn't flog the S5 as if it were mine, though he did want to sell me on the car so he did encourage a heavy right foot. Although I've had some fast cars in the past, my current is a commuter electricar i3 with it's lease expiring soon, so an average gasser feels pretty terrific to me lately. Before driving the S5 I drove a GTI (wanted to drive the Golf R but the lot didn't have any). After the S5 I drove the 440i GC. The GTI was a pleasant surprise and the lightning quick go-cart dynamics are a lot of fun - but ultimately I need a grown up car to use for my work needs too. It was quickly ruled out, even though I liked it. The S5 is a lot bigger and heavier than the GTI of course, but it still felt quite sporting to me. The motor is fabulous and I didn't detect much body roll in the corners, it's planted. Then came the 440i, which feels like a car that was built for me personally to drive fast in, given my BMW background. It all came very natural. I'm sure I'm faster right now in the 440i but could learn to use the extra S5 horsies in short time. No hint of turbo lag that I noticed in any of these, that technology has gotten really good.

fullspeed

This is excellent feedback, many thanks for taking the time to share w/ me. I'm first and foremost a motorcyclist, but some days I need to leave the bike and drive the cage. As such, I appreciate a good manual transmission and I miss having them in my cars. My next car will be either the Sportback or the GC and I'm fine with automatics in them, because they're good ones. I play ice hockey 3x per week so it's a matter of time until I damage a limb - so odds are better that I can still drive in an automatic than in a stick. Also live in a city with heavy rush hour traffic, another plus for automatic.

I did see the A5 SB in the showroom when I drove the S5 Coupe. Size for me was spot on, and felt similar to GC. I prefer a mid to small car; as small as I can get away with. I would agree with you that tech and interior are better in the Audi, and I expect BMW will address that in the next model GC. Part of the GC appeal to me is it has all the good familiar BMW stuff that I know and love - but it's all this stuff that makes it dated, too. This very dichotomy creating my internal struggle.

Glisse

Yes, the 440i GC was in my competitive set. I really like the feel of that straight 6 (my first expensive car was an e36 325i) in the 3/4 series. Never liked it in the 5 series, funnily enough. And even though both cars are using the same ZF8HP, BMW's maps feel better to me. The torque advantage of the Audi is obvious, everywhere, but really both are quick enough for most people/needs. You can always add some M-Performance bits after production which bridge the gap somewhat. At a cost.

The BMW's interior feels a bit old and generic, but it works very well when it comes to just driving the car, rather than sitting in it and playing with the toys. Whilst the quality isn't up to Audi standards, I thought it was quite okay and certainly better than C class Mercedes (AMG spec). As Hinckley has said, you can now dress them up a bit so they don't feel quite so austere.

I didn't understand Hinckley's comment on the S5 Coupé vs Sportback ingress. Sure, the Coupé has longer doors, but the Sportback actually has more driver's headroom than the Coupé. Although a couple of times I have hit my head getting into the Sportback - perhaps the roof wraps down a bit more to the top of the side window area?

I am only interested in all wheel drive, and for me this is where the BMW loses out. It understeers way earlier than the S5, yet it's low speed ride can be quite harsh at times, whilst it feels soft at higher speeds. And that was with adaptive suspension, although 19" wheels with run-flat tyres on the car I drove probably don't help. Apparently the 18" M-Performance set up uses non-run flats which may get rid of that low speed jitter/harshness. BMW would not /could not combine M-Sport suspension/adaptive/xDrive. With the new G30 5 series they have finally done so, and presumably will on the new G20 3 series which I think arrives next year? Although the G30 is getting mixed reports.

The BMW is much noisier at highway speeds - wind noise, tyre noise, etc.

The S5 feels, when the trinity of Sport diff/S adaptive suspension/Dynamic steering is optioned, a much sportier car than the 440i when driven in S mode transmission/engine and Dynamic via MMI.

But the BMW with the 3 litre 6 is still a fine car. I'd be happy to be driving around in one. It does feel like an old glove, 3/4 series always do - hard to imagine anyone getting into one and absolutely hating it. But I think part of the reason that it feels like an old glove is that BMW have under-invested on engineering development in this platform. The latest update for the 2017 (production) car that is being reviewed now in Europe is that they have increased negative camber (to reduce understeer) and fiddled with the electric steering parameters (to try and add some feel). In other words, have invested $0 yet again. It is an old glove

heymoe

I'm cross shopping both of these as well and I recently test drove the 440i GC XD and S5 Coupe. I thought the 440i GC XD was nice but as been noted, it felt dated to me tech and interior wise also. I also think the lines of the S5 SB on the outside look better than the 440i GC XD. Granted a lot of this is personal preference too.

I did see an article recently about BMW 3 and 4 series getting their version of the Virtual Cockpit but not sure how soon that will start to appear. Maybe that will fix the tech side of things but still not feeling the interior as I do with the Audi.

I'm still months away from making a final decision since I'm waiting for a few other models to come out on my list to cross shop so I'll likely revisit the 440i GC XD closer to decision time but right now the S5 SB is still at the top of my list.

fullspeed

Good points. I tend to go though cars quickly, always wanting the latest and greatest, grass is greener mentality. I can't help it, new cars are fun. My hope is that I'll keep my new one for 5 years. That seems harder to do with the outdated GC than with the fresh and hot SB. I still feel BMW is the brand nearest and dearest to my heart, but Audi is catching me at the right time this go around.

fullspeed

Yeah I thought the digital dash was happening on the '18 GC up until a few days ago when I discovered they'll still be analog. Heads Up Display can curb that desire a little, but the Virtual Cockpit is undeniably excellent and I expect many more manufacturers to eventually follow. It's trickling down to the VW Golf R in '18.

hinckley

I don't understand it either! After I came home, I reviewed the specs again. The S5 Coupe actually sits slightly lower than the Sportback. Your thought of the longer Coupe doors may have some merit.

BMW has some sort of tech conflict combining HUD with their digital dash. However, for a company whose technology I admire so much, I think their digital dash is a joke. All it does is change colors and fonts depending on the drive mode you're in. There's zero customability as there is with the Audi VC.

btw, a good night's sleep has helped Audi's case in my head (head case??). I haven't yet made a decision either.