2010 A6 3.0T - Upper Timing Chain Tensioner confusion
01-13-2018, 09:40 PM
#1
2010 A6 3.0T - Upper Timing Chain Tensioner confusion
The wife recently acquired a 2010 A6 3.0T with just shy of 140K miles on it, during cold starts we get some noise from the rear, driver's side of the engine, usually not immediately after cranking, tends to show up 5-10 seconds or so later, a light ticking/tapping that slowly grows in volume and then instantly disappears for a few seconds before beginning the cycle again. the rate at which the noise increases in volume(and then goes silent again) tends to speed up as the engine warms. I don't think I've heard it last beyond 2 minutes at an idle before completely disappearing until the next cold start.
Using my VCDS setup, block 93 changes a bit during the time the noise comes and goes, value 1 tends to stick around 2.xx while value 2 has gotten into the 8.xx-9 range, which does correspond to the driver's side/bank 2. I don't have a 3rd or 4th value(do any of the 3.0T equipped C6 cars?).
So, I'm fairly convinced I'm going to be changing the driver's side upper tensioner sooner rather than later, but I'm not entirely sure which part number/revision I'm looking for? Alldata(which has been failing me more often than not for this car) is showing 06E109217Q as the correct part, but some of the online interchanges disagree with that, either not showing it applicable to the C6 A6 or implying that the 06E109217H and possibly others being correct.....
Does it matter? Are they slight revisions of the same part and compatible with each other? the TSB titled "15 16 28 2039995/2" from April 27, 2016 was released for a new chain tensioner (06E109217AH being bank 2) and shows as applicable to the 2011 A6 3.0T, which should be the same CCAA engine as our 2010 if I'm not mistaken, but neither 09 or 10 model years are mentioned. I'd prefer to stick the newest possible revisions in to try and avoid doing this job again(or at least have it not be necessary again for as long as possible), but the "AH" units look far different than the Q and H variants.
Using my VCDS setup, block 93 changes a bit during the time the noise comes and goes, value 1 tends to stick around 2.xx while value 2 has gotten into the 8.xx-9 range, which does correspond to the driver's side/bank 2. I don't have a 3rd or 4th value(do any of the 3.0T equipped C6 cars?).
So, I'm fairly convinced I'm going to be changing the driver's side upper tensioner sooner rather than later, but I'm not entirely sure which part number/revision I'm looking for? Alldata(which has been failing me more often than not for this car) is showing 06E109217Q as the correct part, but some of the online interchanges disagree with that, either not showing it applicable to the C6 A6 or implying that the 06E109217H and possibly others being correct.....
Does it matter? Are they slight revisions of the same part and compatible with each other? the TSB titled "15 16 28 2039995/2" from April 27, 2016 was released for a new chain tensioner (06E109217AH being bank 2) and shows as applicable to the 2011 A6 3.0T, which should be the same CCAA engine as our 2010 if I'm not mistaken, but neither 09 or 10 model years are mentioned. I'd prefer to stick the newest possible revisions in to try and avoid doing this job again(or at least have it not be necessary again for as long as possible), but the "AH" units look far different than the Q and H variants.
01-15-2018, 11:56 PM
#2
AudiWorld Super User
If you check the part numbers in www.genuineaudiparts.com, the "Q" suffix tensioner is current from 2008 thru 2017 for both the V8 and V6 (3.2L and 3.0L) engines. The "AH" suffix tensioner is current from 2011 thru 2017 V6 engines only (3.0L), but not Engine Code CCAA. Also, there is a large price difference: 06E109217AH for $83.66 vs. 06E109217Q for $217.25 Given this price differential, there must be a big change in the design and that may not work with your engine. Becasue the TSB isn't applicable to your 2010 and the "AH" tensioner doesn't list your engine code, I would stay with tensioner 06E109217Q.
01-21-2018, 06:51 PM
#3
I get the feeling that the AH tensioner being shown as applicable to '11 model years(including CCAA) is an oversight/mistake, but the Q tensioner being applicable up to nearly current is extremely strange. I would expect that to imply that if the older design tensioner were able to be used in the newer engine that the newer(supposedly less trouble-prone) tensioner being used in the older engine is at least in the realm of possibility.
In any case, I don't have the time/patience to play musical tensioners should the new version not work out, so I'll grab a "Q" tensioner and call it a day. I'd prefer to spend less on a better design, but I can't risk having that much downtime on a daily driver.
In any case, I don't have the time/patience to play musical tensioners should the new version not work out, so I'll grab a "Q" tensioner and call it a day. I'd prefer to spend less on a better design, but I can't risk having that much downtime on a daily driver.
01-21-2018, 08:01 PM
#4
Ugh, the more I look into it, the less I can see why the AH wouldn't work where a Q does.
Front comparisons:
The AH looks a little leaner and has less bracing, but everything appears to be located in the same position, at the same depth, etc.
Rear comparisons:
Same deal here, not much appears to have changed, the only possible snag I can see is that it looks like there MIGHT be some differences in depth on the AH for mounting compared to what looks like all the same plane on the Q.
But it's hard to tell without having some in-hand to compare.
Front comparisons:
The AH looks a little leaner and has less bracing, but everything appears to be located in the same position, at the same depth, etc.
Rear comparisons:
Same deal here, not much appears to have changed, the only possible snag I can see is that it looks like there MIGHT be some differences in depth on the AH for mounting compared to what looks like all the same plane on the Q.
But it's hard to tell without having some in-hand to compare.
03-17-2018, 06:25 PM
#5
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Ugh, the more I look into it, the less I can see why the AH wouldn't work where a Q does.
Front comparisons:
The AH looks a little leaner and has less bracing, but everything appears to be located in the same position, at the same depth, etc.
Rear comparisons:
Same deal here, not much appears to have changed, the only possible snag I can see is that it looks like there MIGHT be some differences in depth on the AH for mounting compared to what looks like all the same plane on the Q.
But it's hard to tell without having some in-hand to compare.
Front comparisons:
The AH looks a little leaner and has less bracing, but everything appears to be located in the same position, at the same depth, etc.
Rear comparisons:
Same deal here, not much appears to have changed, the only possible snag I can see is that it looks like there MIGHT be some differences in depth on the AH for mounting compared to what looks like all the same plane on the Q.
But it's hard to tell without having some in-hand to compare.
Thank you for sharing
03-17-2018, 10:05 PM
#6
I've actually been meaning to post an update. I ordered a "q" part and installed it, ending up with a far quieter engine and VCDS showing a -3* value on the driver's side bank for block 93. The old tensioner was clearly a problem, though when i removed it and was messing around with it, it seemed to "hand operate" just fine.
A couple of things worth noting for anyone else who has this pleasure: the guide for the 3.2 is just about 95% accurate for the 3.0tfsi. The changes i can think of offhand are as follows:
The timing tool kit is different, i got mine from freedomracing, 3.2L 2.5L 4.2L 3.0L 2.4L 2.8L AM-T10172-T40133 Camshaft Timing Locking Tool Kit
Worth noting: the cam locking blocks are meant to be torqued to something like 20lb-ft, but it felt like i started stretching the bolts after 15 or so, so i stopped there. I did not use the crank locking pin.
Space in front of the engine for the crank socket is tighter due to the second belt pulley, it may be worth service position. Space behind the engine.may be worse as well due to what im thinking is the AIR system that wasn't on the 3.2.
I destroyed the plastic tube that runs between both valve covers, it was more brittle than i was anticipating. Requires pulling the supercharger to replace, which i already had done due to a thermostat replacement at the same time.
The guide that the chain rolls over between the intake and exhaust sprockets was partially broken on mine, anticipate it and spend the couple extra dollars for one or two ahead of time.
The exhaust side is a little different due to not having an adjuster, just a bare sprocket with 3 small pins on the back.
Both sprockets do have indexing marks of a variety(intake has a notch that corresponds with a slot on the cam covers, exhaust has a dimple that is supposed to point outwards when in the cam locked position), though i dont know if they actually matter beyond being useful to make certain timing doesnt change during the manual rotations.
Pretension : you dont want to do this job again, so pretension correctly. The first time.
No gasket for the tensioner, i thought it was odd, but i didnt pull one off with the original, nor did the new one come with one.
I reused the cam bolts, probably shouldn't have since they're TTY and intended to be one time use, but i couldn't find replacements.
And the big one: there is just enough slack in the chain drive to where you can unintentionally spin the driving sprocket without the crank moving. If this happens, you'll find what appears to be a chain that is inexplicably too short. I fought with this for far too many hours before figuring it out. If you don't spin the driving sprocket, reassembly will be far more straightforward, if you do spin it, you'll need to use one of the cam sprockets to force it in one direction or the other to get slack in the chain to get both cam sprockets on.
Thats all. I can think of at tge moment, we've been driving on it for a couple weeks and more than a Thousand miles with nothing but confidence. If you have any specific questions or get stuck somewhere, let me know, i probably dealt with it as well.
A couple of things worth noting for anyone else who has this pleasure: the guide for the 3.2 is just about 95% accurate for the 3.0tfsi. The changes i can think of offhand are as follows:
The timing tool kit is different, i got mine from freedomracing, 3.2L 2.5L 4.2L 3.0L 2.4L 2.8L AM-T10172-T40133 Camshaft Timing Locking Tool Kit
Worth noting: the cam locking blocks are meant to be torqued to something like 20lb-ft, but it felt like i started stretching the bolts after 15 or so, so i stopped there. I did not use the crank locking pin.
Space in front of the engine for the crank socket is tighter due to the second belt pulley, it may be worth service position. Space behind the engine.may be worse as well due to what im thinking is the AIR system that wasn't on the 3.2.
I destroyed the plastic tube that runs between both valve covers, it was more brittle than i was anticipating. Requires pulling the supercharger to replace, which i already had done due to a thermostat replacement at the same time.
The guide that the chain rolls over between the intake and exhaust sprockets was partially broken on mine, anticipate it and spend the couple extra dollars for one or two ahead of time.
The exhaust side is a little different due to not having an adjuster, just a bare sprocket with 3 small pins on the back.
Both sprockets do have indexing marks of a variety(intake has a notch that corresponds with a slot on the cam covers, exhaust has a dimple that is supposed to point outwards when in the cam locked position), though i dont know if they actually matter beyond being useful to make certain timing doesnt change during the manual rotations.
Pretension : you dont want to do this job again, so pretension correctly. The first time.
No gasket for the tensioner, i thought it was odd, but i didnt pull one off with the original, nor did the new one come with one.
I reused the cam bolts, probably shouldn't have since they're TTY and intended to be one time use, but i couldn't find replacements.
And the big one: there is just enough slack in the chain drive to where you can unintentionally spin the driving sprocket without the crank moving. If this happens, you'll find what appears to be a chain that is inexplicably too short. I fought with this for far too many hours before figuring it out. If you don't spin the driving sprocket, reassembly will be far more straightforward, if you do spin it, you'll need to use one of the cam sprockets to force it in one direction or the other to get slack in the chain to get both cam sprockets on.
Thats all. I can think of at tge moment, we've been driving on it for a couple weeks and more than a Thousand miles with nothing but confidence. If you have any specific questions or get stuck somewhere, let me know, i probably dealt with it as well.
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03-18-2018, 05:03 AM
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Thank you RobertISaar, I was definitely not expecting a fast reply like this with so much information. I really appreciate your input and now I need to order all the parts required as I already own all the required tools. I was waiting to order the tensioner as I wasn't quite sure which model even if the dealer was saying "Q" version.
My Audi A6 avant 3.0T is a 2011 with 228 000kms so we're exactly at the same mileage ~ 141k miles. I will go ahead and check again the values in VCDS to see what it looks like compared to what you had.
As for the guides, did you replace them ? If so, do you happen to have parts number just to make sure I got them right. This is what i found so far. Could you tell me which ones were broken or used ? :
Audi C6 A6 V6 3.0T Guide Rails - Upper
Guide rail that the timing chain rides : 079109469AL
Guide rail that the center timing chain rides : 079109469AM
Upper rail that the left & right timing chains ride : 079109470
If you think of any other maintenance that I should look into that 3.0T when doing this job, I will take your advice. I don't have any issues putting more money to get it right.
My Audi A6 avant 3.0T is a 2011 with 228 000kms so we're exactly at the same mileage ~ 141k miles. I will go ahead and check again the values in VCDS to see what it looks like compared to what you had.
As for the guides, did you replace them ? If so, do you happen to have parts number just to make sure I got them right. This is what i found so far. Could you tell me which ones were broken or used ? :
Audi C6 A6 V6 3.0T Guide Rails - Upper
Guide rail that the timing chain rides : 079109469AL
Guide rail that the center timing chain rides : 079109469AM
Upper rail that the left & right timing chains ride : 079109470
If you think of any other maintenance that I should look into that 3.0T when doing this job, I will take your advice. I don't have any issues putting more money to get it right.
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03-25-2018, 08:36 PM
#8
The "470" guide is what i replaced and would highly recommend having on hand when doing upper tensioner(s). The 469al and 469am guides are for the center chain, which is a bit deeper than i had to dig to solve my issues. If it had come down to pulling the engine or dropping the transmission, i absolutely would have replaced both of the 469am and the lone 469al guides, the cost is too little to question leaving it to near-future luck.
03-30-2018, 12:56 AM
#9
Hi,
I've got exactly the same problem as you describe RobertISaar with the tapping being on cycle before going and then starting again. Mine lasts for about 15-20 secs then goes. Did changing the drivers side upper tensioner resolve it and change the job be done in situ. If anyone in the U.K is aware of a garage that can do the work, it would be much appreciated.
I've got exactly the same problem as you describe RobertISaar with the tapping being on cycle before going and then starting again. Mine lasts for about 15-20 secs then goes. Did changing the drivers side upper tensioner resolve it and change the job be done in situ. If anyone in the U.K is aware of a garage that can do the work, it would be much appreciated.
03-30-2018, 10:32 PM
#10
I haven't heard it again since the tensioner replacement, though now that it's beginning to warm up, i wouldn't expect to unless the car were to sit for a few days at a time. Even then, i still haven't experienced it again.
