W12 could be gone after D5
03-21-2018, 07:19 PM
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W12 could be gone after D5
Well ladies and gentleman, from various articles I have encountered in recent Audi news, our glorious W12 engine will probably have it's last "hoorah" in the D5 before meeting it's demise. The head of development, I'm guessing, said something along the lines of "This will be the last installation of the motor". Are the magazines taking this comment too far? Could it all be to boost sales of the 12 cylinder? Who knows. All I know is I'm alarmed that one of my favorite engines could be on the chopping block! 
If you know me, you know how much I hate all this "downsizing" and "emissions" BS. 12 cylinder engines in luxury limos are bad, yet big pig-like SUVs that still average 13MPG are fine. It's always about money, These people really don't give a S**T about emissions, or downsizing, or the environment cause believe it or not folks, a modern 12 cylinder engine with turbochargers is not going to do ANYTHING for the planet. Now, rant over. Back to the W12...
Also an interesting point that has come to mind: If there is no more 12 cylinder option past D5, would you guys theorize that they depreciate even harder? Or would that factor keep them expensive for a long time? What do you think? Personally I wouldn't mind driving a "dinosaur".
It's truly unfortunate if Audi's intentions on phasing out the motor are true. Yes, at least we will still have our strong V8s, which alot of us (myself included) take for granted and sometimes think "lesser" of when things like the W12 exist, but it's not the same, at least not for me. 4 more cylinders = more silky smoothness, more prestige, and let's face it more bragging rights, because you simply have MORE. And apparently, Audi is not alone. Elsewhere I stumbled upon an article which contained information on BMW canning their V12 in the 760i trim past the current (G11) generation.
So, I leave you all with this info. I'd love to hear the thoughts and opinions of anyone who wishes to chime in. Well, that's all for now!
Good Day
If you know me, you know how much I hate all this "downsizing" and "emissions" BS. 12 cylinder engines in luxury limos are bad, yet big pig-like SUVs that still average 13MPG are fine. It's always about money, These people really don't give a S**T about emissions, or downsizing, or the environment cause believe it or not folks, a modern 12 cylinder engine with turbochargers is not going to do ANYTHING for the planet. Now, rant over. Back to the W12...
Also an interesting point that has come to mind: If there is no more 12 cylinder option past D5, would you guys theorize that they depreciate even harder? Or would that factor keep them expensive for a long time? What do you think? Personally I wouldn't mind driving a "dinosaur".
It's truly unfortunate if Audi's intentions on phasing out the motor are true. Yes, at least we will still have our strong V8s, which alot of us (myself included) take for granted and sometimes think "lesser" of when things like the W12 exist, but it's not the same, at least not for me. 4 more cylinders = more silky smoothness, more prestige, and let's face it more bragging rights, because you simply have MORE. And apparently, Audi is not alone. Elsewhere I stumbled upon an article which contained information on BMW canning their V12 in the 760i trim past the current (G11) generation.
So, I leave you all with this info. I'd love to hear the thoughts and opinions of anyone who wishes to chime in. Well, that's all for now!
Good Day
03-22-2018, 08:13 AM
#2
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Well ladies and gentleman, from various articles I have encountered in recent Audi news, our glorious W12 engine will probably have it's last "hoorah" in the D5 before meeting it's demise. The head of development, I'm guessing, said something along the lines of "This will be the last installation of the motor". Are the magazines taking this comment too far? Could it all be to boost sales of the 12 cylinder? Who knows. All I know is I'm alarmed that one of my favorite engines could be on the chopping block!
If you know me, you know how much I hate all this "downsizing" and "emissions" BS. 12 cylinder engines in luxury limos are bad, yet big pig-like SUVs that still average 13MPG are fine. It's always about money, These people really don't give a S**T about emissions, or downsizing, or the environment cause believe it or not folks, a modern 12 cylinder engine with turbochargers is not going to do ANYTHING for the planet. Now, rant over. Back to the W12...
Also an interesting point that has come to mind: If there is no more 12 cylinder option past D5, would you guys theorize that they depreciate even harder? Or would that factor keep them expensive for a long time? What do you think? Personally I wouldn't mind driving a "dinosaur".
It's truly unfortunate if Audi's intentions on phasing out the motor are true. Yes, at least we will still have our strong V8s, which alot of us (myself included) take for granted and sometimes think "lesser" of when things like the W12 exist, but it's not the same, at least not for me. 4 more cylinders = more silky smoothness, more prestige, and let's face it more bragging rights, because you simply have MORE. And apparently, Audi is not alone. Elsewhere I stumbled upon an article which contained information on BMW canning their V12 in the 760i trim past the current (G11) generation.
So, I leave you all with this info. I'd love to hear the thoughts and opinions of anyone who wishes to chime in. Well, that's all for now!
Good Day
If you know me, you know how much I hate all this "downsizing" and "emissions" BS. 12 cylinder engines in luxury limos are bad, yet big pig-like SUVs that still average 13MPG are fine. It's always about money, These people really don't give a S**T about emissions, or downsizing, or the environment cause believe it or not folks, a modern 12 cylinder engine with turbochargers is not going to do ANYTHING for the planet. Now, rant over. Back to the W12...
Also an interesting point that has come to mind: If there is no more 12 cylinder option past D5, would you guys theorize that they depreciate even harder? Or would that factor keep them expensive for a long time? What do you think? Personally I wouldn't mind driving a "dinosaur".
It's truly unfortunate if Audi's intentions on phasing out the motor are true. Yes, at least we will still have our strong V8s, which alot of us (myself included) take for granted and sometimes think "lesser" of when things like the W12 exist, but it's not the same, at least not for me. 4 more cylinders = more silky smoothness, more prestige, and let's face it more bragging rights, because you simply have MORE. And apparently, Audi is not alone. Elsewhere I stumbled upon an article which contained information on BMW canning their V12 in the 760i trim past the current (G11) generation.
So, I leave you all with this info. I'd love to hear the thoughts and opinions of anyone who wishes to chime in. Well, that's all for now!
Good Day
On the other hand, for USA specifically, Audi can't even get the V8 announced for D5 let alone get the car here, so who knows? W12 frankly sold mice nuts for D4 in USA. Here in Teslaville NorCal, I hardly see D4's in general. I have literally never seen a single D4 W12 on the road, ever. When it was contemporary, by contrast there were several D3 W12's in a five mile or so radius around where I live. D4 W12 just plain got overshadowed power wise too once 4.0T in any flavor was intro'ed/ Hopefully will be back in the blown form already announced, and given Bentley has had that for years, they presumably have it reasonably debugged.
As to valuation, yes it might have special value in long run. Hold something long enough, and it can become like an "E type." From owning the D3, my sense it it has developed more of a following in its later years as something special. S8 with V10 has that some, but then it really isn't the Lambo motor (starting with a different crank) and some of the old Audi reliability worries seem to be showing their ugly head with them too.
Last edited by MP4.2+6.0; 03-22-2018 at 08:17 AM.
03-22-2018, 08:47 PM
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Car not even here yet, not even announced with anything beyond a 6 banger, and worried about W12's demise? Give it another 8 years or so of model cycle to see. Also remember the motor has constant deployment in high margin Bentleys, helping support business case. AND, it is the German Chancellor's ride after all--in Armoured Edition that as--so more bragging rights for Germany's leading industry.
On the other hand, for USA specifically, Audi can't even get the V8 announced for D5 let alone get the car here, so who knows? W12 frankly sold mice nuts for D4 in USA. Here in Teslaville NorCal, I hardly see D4's in general. I have literally never seen a single D4 W12 on the road, ever. When it was contemporary, by contrast there were several D3 W12's in a five mile or so radius around where I live. D4 W12 just plain got overshadowed power wise too once 4.0T in any flavor was intro'ed/ Hopefully will be back in the blown form already announced, and given Bentley has had that for years, they presumably have it reasonably debugged.
As to valuation, yes it might have special value in long run. Hold something long enough, and it can become like an "E type." From owning the D3, my sense it it has developed more of a following in its later years as something special. S8 with V10 has that some, but then it really isn't the Lambo motor (starting with a different crank) and some of the old Audi reliability worries seem to be showing their ugly head with them too.
On the other hand, for USA specifically, Audi can't even get the V8 announced for D5 let alone get the car here, so who knows? W12 frankly sold mice nuts for D4 in USA. Here in Teslaville NorCal, I hardly see D4's in general. I have literally never seen a single D4 W12 on the road, ever. When it was contemporary, by contrast there were several D3 W12's in a five mile or so radius around where I live. D4 W12 just plain got overshadowed power wise too once 4.0T in any flavor was intro'ed/ Hopefully will be back in the blown form already announced, and given Bentley has had that for years, they presumably have it reasonably debugged.
As to valuation, yes it might have special value in long run. Hold something long enough, and it can become like an "E type." From owning the D3, my sense it it has developed more of a following in its later years as something special. S8 with V10 has that some, but then it really isn't the Lambo motor (starting with a different crank) and some of the old Audi reliability worries seem to be showing their ugly head with them too.
As for what you said about the W12 rarity, you are correct. I've never seen a D4 A8 6.3, only W12 I've ever seen in the flesh was a D3 A8 6.0 at Livermore Audi when I swooped by to buy some leather care cleaner one day. It was Ibis White. Looked like it was in for some sort of service or job. Very nice.
This new Bi-turbo W12 will almost certainly put the A8 6.0t on the map once again. In fact, with how fast the Bentley Bentayga is with this engine, it won't surprise me if the A8 6.0t challenges the S8 for the title of new "Limo speed king" with this new monster motor jammed in there. Almost 600hp, 664tq (underrated, I'm sure), it should be a proper monster, albeit as smooth and silky as possible. Plus with a bit of aftermarket work (should a company like APR, MRC, or MTM develop software). Exhaust and tunes would turn this thing into a missile. Wishful thinking
I'm 100% with you, there are still plenty of customers out there for a car like this, and with how efficient and clean/updated this W12 motor is, I see no reason why Audi should drop it now that it has a real potential and advantage over the A8 range. It's quite foolish in my opinion if they were to do something like that. And if the Chancellor has one now, I'm damn sure we'll see him in a D5 W12.
Last edited by TeamHate; 03-22-2018 at 09:06 PM.
03-27-2018, 05:49 AM
#4
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Team, I was always intrigued by the W12, but I didn't want a long wheel base D3 or D4, so I never went that direction. Now that I own a D4 with the 4.0 TFSI, I understand why the W12 is reaching the end of the line. The 4.0 is a remarkable engine, not just for the power, but also for the refinement. There are times I have to look at the tach too see if the engine is running!
I have always been a fan of V8 N/A engines, but the rules are stacked against them, and they , too , will fade away. Incidentally, the V8 in my prior SWB D3 achieved better gas mileage on the highway, according to the computer, than my new D4 achieves, which surprised me, considering the hype about efficiency. Of course, the D4 is about ten percent heavier, and I haven't actually measured fuel consumption, so I acknowledge the weakness of my observation.
Another thing; when the D3 S8 came out with the V10 engine and as a SWB model, I test drove one, and I loved the "feel" of the N/A V10, until I drove on a back road and the additional weight up front came into play. For me, personally, driving dynamics were my first priority, and the lighter V8 felt better.
Mike
I have always been a fan of V8 N/A engines, but the rules are stacked against them, and they , too , will fade away. Incidentally, the V8 in my prior SWB D3 achieved better gas mileage on the highway, according to the computer, than my new D4 achieves, which surprised me, considering the hype about efficiency. Of course, the D4 is about ten percent heavier, and I haven't actually measured fuel consumption, so I acknowledge the weakness of my observation.
Another thing; when the D3 S8 came out with the V10 engine and as a SWB model, I test drove one, and I loved the "feel" of the N/A V10, until I drove on a back road and the additional weight up front came into play. For me, personally, driving dynamics were my first priority, and the lighter V8 felt better.
Mike
03-29-2018, 08:37 PM
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Team, I was always intrigued by the W12, but I didn't want a long wheel base D3 or D4, so I never went that direction. Now that I own a D4 with the 4.0 TFSI, I understand why the W12 is reaching the end of the line. The 4.0 is a remarkable engine, not just for the power, but also for the refinement. There are times I have to look at the tach too see if the engine is running!
I have always been a fan of V8 N/A engines, but the rules are stacked against them, and they , too , will fade away. Incidentally, the V8 in my prior SWB D3 achieved better gas mileage on the highway, according to the computer, than my new D4 achieves, which surprised me, considering the hype about efficiency. Of course, the D4 is about ten percent heavier, and I haven't actually measured fuel consumption, so I acknowledge the weakness of my observation.
Another thing; when the D3 S8 came out with the V10 engine and as a SWB model, I test drove one, and I loved the "feel" of the N/A V10, until I drove on a back road and the additional weight up front came into play. For me, personally, driving dynamics were my first priority, and the lighter V8 felt better.
Mike
I have always been a fan of V8 N/A engines, but the rules are stacked against them, and they , too , will fade away. Incidentally, the V8 in my prior SWB D3 achieved better gas mileage on the highway, according to the computer, than my new D4 achieves, which surprised me, considering the hype about efficiency. Of course, the D4 is about ten percent heavier, and I haven't actually measured fuel consumption, so I acknowledge the weakness of my observation.
Another thing; when the D3 S8 came out with the V10 engine and as a SWB model, I test drove one, and I loved the "feel" of the N/A V10, until I drove on a back road and the additional weight up front came into play. For me, personally, driving dynamics were my first priority, and the lighter V8 felt better.
Mike
Interesting outlook on the A8, your first priority being sportiness/dynamics. The times I've gotten behind the wheel of an A8 (D3), sportiness is more of an afterthought to me, since the car is so large, I don't really get the urge to push it, but when you want it to handle, boy it will do it
The W12 is just a rare bird. It strikes up a conversation, kind of like the D3 S8, and if these far fetched rumors are true (Which have yet to be really determined, since the entire run of D5 production will use the W12, so perhaps there will be even more advancements on the engine for later on), then it's going to be a sad day. We will see.
Now, as far as handling/driving dynamics between the SWB and LWB 8s go... There really is no difference. I myself thought there would be a huge difference in straight line speed + turning. There isn't at least not to me, the standard wheelbase car is already humongous, a couple extra inches and negligible weight increase isn't going to be noticeable. I don't know if that's the reason you never wanted to opt for an L?
03-30-2018, 08:28 AM
#6
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Here's a story on it, rather than just the echo's floating around: Audi Abandons W12 Engine, New A8 Will Be Last Hurrah . Quattroworld also ran it.
On Mike's reply on the 4.0T, absolutely for the D4 era. Having owned a D3 W12, difference from there to a "regular" 4.2 (that was then the production motor) was unmistakable. But the power of the 4.0T just plain eclipsed the N.A. W12. And...now I am driving the 4.0T S8. W12 does have the instant torque right now, low down feel of both a bigger motor displacement and normally aspirated. 4.0T is pretty damn good there though with the hot V set up that the other German companies are now playing catch up on.
BUT, be sure to realize the D5 W12 is the twin turbo flavor, found historically in Bentley's but without the thousand extra pounds of Bentley steel and other lard. W12 was also reworked in latest incarnation for D5. Thus, I figure it may be back to being something special, with some performance to match rather than lagging like with later D4's. Would be nice if we could get SWB W12's, but only for Europe and sales volume in USA for all of them combined it less than most exotics to start with. Agreed with the comments about the heavy front end and all, but frankly all these are badly overweight porkers, my D4 S8 included. 46 or 4700 pounds is ridiculous when starting point is an all aluminum body. 700 pounds would only be a good start, yet D5 was actually piling yet a little more lard on. Needs liposuction with a full sized shop vac, not more lipstick.
On Mike's reply on the 4.0T, absolutely for the D4 era. Having owned a D3 W12, difference from there to a "regular" 4.2 (that was then the production motor) was unmistakable. But the power of the 4.0T just plain eclipsed the N.A. W12. And...now I am driving the 4.0T S8. W12 does have the instant torque right now, low down feel of both a bigger motor displacement and normally aspirated. 4.0T is pretty damn good there though with the hot V set up that the other German companies are now playing catch up on.
BUT, be sure to realize the D5 W12 is the twin turbo flavor, found historically in Bentley's but without the thousand extra pounds of Bentley steel and other lard. W12 was also reworked in latest incarnation for D5. Thus, I figure it may be back to being something special, with some performance to match rather than lagging like with later D4's. Would be nice if we could get SWB W12's, but only for Europe and sales volume in USA for all of them combined it less than most exotics to start with. Agreed with the comments about the heavy front end and all, but frankly all these are badly overweight porkers, my D4 S8 included. 46 or 4700 pounds is ridiculous when starting point is an all aluminum body. 700 pounds would only be a good start, yet D5 was actually piling yet a little more lard on. Needs liposuction with a full sized shop vac, not more lipstick.
Last edited by MP4.2+6.0; 03-30-2018 at 08:31 AM.
03-30-2018, 06:58 PM
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frankly all these are badly overweight porkers, my D4 S8 included. 46 or 4700 pounds is ridiculous when starting point is an all aluminum body. 700 pounds would only be a good start, yet D5 was actually piling yet a little more lard on. Needs liposuction with a full sized shop vac, not more lipstick.
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