HalifaxMKIIITTRS

Received my 2018 TTRS in April. One thing I payed more for was for the front carbon-ceramic brakes since I planned to track the car 4-5 days per year.

After reading everything I could on the carbon-ceramic brakes, the only downsides were (i) they're noisy (squeaks and squeals) and (ii) they're expensive to replace when they wear out. Now I also know that they should (i) be better performing on the track, (ii) dissipate heat better, (iii) last longer than standard steel rotors and pads.

I followed my "break in" procedures from Audi for the car including the usual 2000 km ease in operation and "seated" my brakes.

I finally got to go to my first lapping day at our local track this month. I ran 4 sessions of 20 min each, 1 lap warm-up at 1/2 speed, no heavy braking, cool down laps at 1/2 speed before coming in. Checked tire air pressures front & rear and adjusted if needed. Let car sit to cool for at least 25-30 minutes between sessions. Didn't notice anything unusual with the front brakes—no smell, no fade, no extra heat coming off them compared with previous cars while i checked tire pressures.

Car was awesome on the track! No understeer into corners, brakes were so good, grip forever, handled like on rails, etc. I didn't even have to push the pedal very hard at all to slow down from 120 km/hr to 60 km/hr in short distances. My home track is only about 1.3 miles long and most areas are taken at not more than 90-120 km/hr max with the only long straight away giving me an opportunity to hit maybe 150 km/hr.

Now the RANT.

So, I am driving home from the track and I notice a bit of a "whump whump" noise coming from the front right wheel. No brake pedal pulsation, very minimal vibration in the steering wheel. I know I pick up a lot of rubber off the track and in pit lane while the tires are hot and thought I might have a mass of rubber attached to the rim unbalancing it slightly. So I get home and next day I proceed to clean the rims and rotate the tires (always after a track day!) and then take the car out to check if the issue has been fixed. Still there...hmmm...time to take it into dealer to check.

So, I had to wait 2 weeks to get in and had the technician ride along to hear the noise. They take off the front wheels to get a look, I get called down to the garage.

The brakes had overheated!! OVERHEATED!?!? I said...WTF. wear sensors were melted, glue on back of brake pads melted, a chip in one rotor and the the other one appears to be slightly warped. Audi recommends everything needs to be replaced at $17,000 cost. Now, I am no newbie to track driving having 5-years experience and two BMW's that I drove on the track: one with regular steel rotors and pads—that I had to replace each fall after tracking it over the summer (3-4 days) and then one with M-performance brakes which I only had to replace once in 3-years after 8 or 9 track days and 36,000 kms. Both BMW's never had brake fade or overheating.

Now, am I wrong in assuming that the carbon ceramic should, at least perform or wear the same as steel rotors and regular pads? Should they not perform and wear better since that is how they are marketed?

I am now having to file a complaint to Audi Canada's Customer Service and see what can be done, even though I know they don't warranty brake wear components and if you track the car they tend to wash their hands of it. But come on—the car is marketed and promoted as a high-performance car AND the carbon ceramic brakes are marketed for more high performance use.

I am looking into converting the front brakes now to steel rotors and sport pads—cheaper to replace. I will be seeing if Audi Canada will compensate me somehow since I am NOT replacing the carbon ceramics and converting to steel is WAY cheaper.

All I can say is I am very disappointed and feel duped about getting the carbon ceramic brakes since no one—even the Audi Techs I spoke with before ordering—said the carbon ceramics would be a bad idea.

RANT OVER...

Rapture

Wow, I would have thought those brakes would have held up better. There is no real reason to purchase those unless you want to get the extra benefit on the track, you would think.

isb

ormandj

The carbon ceramics are not better on the track, and they cost more to replace. There really is no win for them except lower amounts of brake dust. Definitely go aftermarket and swap to iron rotors. AP Racing and a few others have some very nice kits. I'm sorry you learned the hard way. Best of luck on the dealership situation, but I would definitely cut losses and use the opportunity to upgrade, you'll have far better brakes, and no more problems.

superswiss

A lot of folks who do a lot of tracking recommend against CCBs. As you are experiencing yourself they cost a lot of money to replace. The main benefits of the CCBs is lower rotational weight and they can deal with more heat w/o fading, however, there is no guarantee that the stuff around it can take the heat. It sounds like they performed as advertised in terms of not fading on you, but nobody ever said that you may not have to replace them after a track day. They last very long with normal use, but the ceramic rotors can chip easy as you are also learning now. The rotors are much harder than iron, so debris flying up to it can chip or even crack the rotors.

The CCBs can stand up to driving on the track much better and are unlikely or less likely to fade, but you may still end up needing new brakes afterwards. All that heat is cooking the wheel well. The R8 has air ducts that blow air directly at the rotors to get the heat out. Not sure if the TT RS has any. In my experience brake cooling is a big issue with RS cars.

Vegas-roadster

It was certainly an issue with the Mk 2 TTRS. I know some folks who modded their TTRS to increase air flow over front the brakes.
That said, the extent of damage experienced by the OP seems absurd as I would expect any RS model to be track ready.

superswiss

Couple of points. OP got unlucky and chipped a rotor. Cracked or chipped CCB rotors is not uncommon. It's an inherit risk due to the material. It doesn't dent or bend and instead just chips or cracks.

The melted glue and brake sensor is not a big deal and easily fixed with a new set of pads.

Part of the issue here is the diagnosis. The warped rotor part is BS. CCBs don't warp. In fact rotors rarely warp in general, but it's a common lazy diagnosis. Most likely he has uneven pad material deposits, which most often is caused by the lack of properly bedding the brakes, so that begs the question did OP properly bed/burnish the brakes before going to the track.

HalifaxMKIIITTRS

First, thanks to all for the responses.

I did follow the proper "break in" or "bedding" process for carbon -ceramic brakes taken from another manufacturer of brakes as Audi did not supply me with anything but the manual for the TTRS which only addresses normal brakes. I am not concerned about the sensors, or pads, but to have the rotors need replacing after 1 track day and 5,000 kms is a bit ridiculous. When up on the hoist, there are cooling vents in the wheel well but right in front of each side is a cooling rad—one for oil and another for transmission? So, no air flow really gets into the brakes. I call that improper engineering design ( I am a professional engineer and abhor bad design)—something Audi should fix as the vents were put in but then blocked by rads in front.

I know the warped rotor is BS as carbon - ceramics rotors don't warp—another reason I got them, higher heat resistance. The chip was very small on the edge of the rotor and just barely went over the maximum size that Audi recommends it be replaced—2 mm deep—my rotor was 2.2 mm deep.

My points are : (i) TTRS is a high performance car and marketed for "performance enthusiasts", not a cheap daily driver, (ii) carbon-ceramic brakes are offered for better track performance—why would someone get them for normal daily driving? (maybe longer lasting—but not worth the extra $$, (iii) the car has improper venting for the brakes when under large loads—a design flaw.

I am pushing for Audi to at least do something since at minimum, I was sold something that they were not well representing—even when I talked to my Audi dealer, they had no real sense of what the properties and performance differences are with carbon-ceramics.

Now they didn't pull my car off the road because it is a safety concern and un-drivable. The brakes still work well but they still say Audi recommends the whole set be replaced in the front.

I am mostly pissed because of the way the brakes were marketed to me—their high performance brakes, better for performance driving.

superswiss

FWIW, Audi will generally always recommend to replace everything when doing a brake job. They don't want to risk the customer coming back complaining that they didn't do the brake job correctly, but you can do what you want. I've gone completely aftermarket with the brake setup on my RS5 for example. With something that suits my needs better and I don't replace the rotors every time the pads are worn. There are minimum thickness tolerances etc. so rotors generally last longer than they make you believe. Physical damage to the rotors is a different story, though and Audi will wash their hands there. That's the risk of taking the car to the track or driving in general. I agree they don't do a good job educating customers about CCBs. It's interesting when I went to a Mercedes Dealership to look at AMG models how the sales person flat out told me don't get the CCBs and he knew what he was talking about. The CCBs are cool and all, but for most people complete overkill, even if you go to the track. You can do better aftermarket setups that don't cost a body part if they need to be replaced after a good thrashing on the track.

Vegas-roadster

Actual warping of a rotor is extremely rare. The brake pulsing one feels is almost always due to pad deposits.