Marcus

Well, my real question here is, if "chipping" a TT alone can bump the horsepower by 30, then why doesn't Audi tune their chips to this higher performance in the first place? I really want to "chip" my TT, but I'm thinking that their must be some downside to it. Any comments?
Thanks!!!

Jenner

1. They have to code their chips for the "average Joe" who doesn't have access or doesn't care to put in 91+ octane. The car has to perform without pinging and with decent response at different locations/conditions all over the world and with different blends of gas. Someone who chips their car, usually is an enthusiast and uses 93/94 octane all the time, runs synthetic oil, takes better care of the car in general.

2. They code for the longest possible engine/turbo life given treatment by "average joe". They want the car to last as long as possible given abuse, 87 or lower octane, crappy oil, etc.

The way I see it Audi has to accommodate everyone where aftermarket tuners accommodate the people that know more about cars and take better care of them, and in return get better performance, and maybe shorter engine/turbo life. Just look at the A4 touring car and the Quattro 90's that used to race. They were tuned for Audi by Joe Hoppen(MTM) to produce crazy numbers, but again, they are using race fuel, and usually get an engine rebuild after a race or two. My 2 cents...

-Jenner
'00 180QX TT Garrett, H&R Sport Springs

dmf

more and less expensive cars more pronounced. If the less expensive version had 210 hp, the extra $3000 USD for 225 just would not seem worth it to many of us.

It's true that the 225 will have other components, but we can add most of them ourselves at less expense. One real advantage of the 225 is its six-gear trans. Also, with a 225, you can chip it even higher, but that power (300 hp) is something that a driver like me would just never use.

I don't think there is a downside to getting a good chip, like the APR or Garrett. IMHO, it just brings the car up to the power it should have, power that is well within the engine's capacity.

Check the archives. The TT is too new for anyone to have had it chipped for long, but A4 drivers have been doing it for years. Here, members like mne and Jenner have posted a lot of specific information.

TTigger

Re: OK class-Can Everyone Spell "DEPENDABILITY "

Brad Willis

Well, I guess that Jenner and I found something else to agree on. You can make the car go faster via aftermarket chips and such, but this may be at the expense of reduced engine/powertrain/turbo life.

I might add that the TT is already chipped, in essence. This is (mostly) the same engine as what is in the A4, but Audi has increased the engine's output by 30 hp, primarily via chip. You might note that when Audi built the TT's 225hp version, they substantially modified the engine to allow it to handle the extra power.

There are, of course, risks involved with aftermarket modifications. Let's say, for example, that I had chipped my FWD TT, and then the transmission problems began. Audi could have very easily denied me warranty coverage by stating that my transmission was not designed to handle the additional power output, and that the extra stress is what caused the transmission to fail. Of course, I could challenge this, but it would be a hassle, with no guarantee of a successful outcome.

So aftermarket mods/chips can undoubtedly add a lot to your driving experience. Just make sure that you do the mods with your eyes wide open.

TomF

In going from the 180HP to the 225HP engine, Audi changed (strengthened) several engine components - it's more than just a chip change. Engines are designed and manufactured to obtain some level of reliability & life - Audi's design practices will play a role in how much power they're going to give an engine.

Tom
1.8TQMS Silver/Ecru

Marius B

Heat dissipation is one major problem that chip tuners may be tempted to ignore

mne

my turbo/intake temps dropped dramatically over stock chip/exhaust and cooling fan runs less w/Borla

mne

Audi builds cars for the masses. Compromises must be made. Their ideal is to build a "one-size-fits-all-car." Hell thats EVERY carmakers dream. But its impossible, so their goal is to make a diversified compromise. One that has the most appeal to the most people. Within that reliability, driveability, affordability and minimal warranty work must be considered. Audi, like ANY auto manufacturer builds cars conservatively... with an element of underengineering, ie; detuning. First because it makes the cars a tad more likely to complete their given warranty period with minimal factory costs. A given dollar amount is budgeted for repair of ALL vehicles sold for use on public roads in every country and on every continent. They are most assuredly not paying that out of the goodness of their hearts. We paid for that "insurance policy" in the sticker price of the car. In essence, we purchased an "extended warranty" on this car when we bought it. Theres no "free" warranty. We bought an insurance policy... plain & simple. Now chipping or adding aftermarket products muddies the waters... even if their better products, they compromise the integrity of the warranty system at large. Its understandable no manufacturer wants the liability of another entities parts affecting theirs either positively or negatively. It makes it too vague and ambiguous to identify blame and/or culpability. But also understand the auto industry as a whole schools ALL their people in ways to avoid even valid warranty issues, or at least try to. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. But it saves the industry MILLIONS a year just to have some service writer say "this problem is due to XXXXX and because of that, its not covered." It happens, and it happens alot. Sometimes its an outright lie, sometimes its a mistake and other times its a bona-fide pilot error or neglect. I dont think any Audi dealer is "out" to get you, me or anyone else. I think they have a fiduciary duty to protect themselves from fraud and abuse. And they have a duty to us as consumers to treat us fairly and equitably. But its always gonne be a "buyer/consumer beware" scenario. They cant void our entire warranty even in the event of a chip-induced failure on ANY component not associated with that chip and its designed task. The chip all the chipmakers are producing today for the TT represent a boost increase of about .1 bar. From 1 to 1.1 bar. That is NOT a staggering or even very dramatic increase. If I thought for one second that Audi built a product that didnt have a cushion of 10% designed and built into every componenet of this car I would never have bought it. The basic same motor that we have in the TT in an A4 is being bumped from 25% boost-wise for almost a 50% increases in HP and these guys are seeing 50k+ with zero relibility/dependability probs. And I know some of you will say that we're running the same motor as them and Audi got our power up primarily with chip alone and that is just not true. We have an altogether different and appreciably enhanced induction system. We have a better flowing exhaust manifold. We are running more boost stock than a stock A4... but less than 10% increase over that stock figure is not going to cause us to start grenading motors left & right. Chips do cause more wear and tear on all stress-related and reciprocal parts in the engine and drive train. But how much time you spend under full boost is the accurate measure of exactly how much affect that will have on your & my motor. And even then it will only be somewhere in the neighborhood of 10% more... the exact measurement that my chipped car is over a non chipped car. Nothing is free... warranties or power. And I seriously doubt that you could find any empirical data showing a higher failure rate for chipped vs. non-chipped cars. Imagine the liability and word of mouth damage that a chipmaker would endure if his product was grenading cars all over the place. Word of mouth alone would preclude any of us ever having one of "them chipped things." Whens the last time anyone here ever heard of a chip-related catastrophic failure... or an unhonored warranty due to chip installation. Dont quote me "well I have a friend of a friend who.... " thats bunk!!! Tell me first-hand knowledge. One you've seen or know of personally. One that didnt have a myriad of other enhancements going on with his engine, ie; cams with mega lift and duration, headers, bigger turbo, fuel injectors... weird and way-out-there timing curves or redline cutoff disabled or bypassed. Show me ONE... just ONE single incident of a basically stock car with a simple name-brand, top quality, bought from a reputable vendor chip thats grenaded the turbo/engine on its owner. These chips are not blowing engines up all around us people and they're not likely to start anytime soon. Dontcha see... these people are no different than Audi... they too arent buidling a product thats on the fragile extreme edge of performance. They are building a chip with a trade-off built in... a margin of conservatism... underengineered and with an element of reliability built in... a "cushion" of forgiveness. They have to...If they didn't, APR, Garrett, MTM, Neuspeed and Wetterhauer would be so tied up in product liability suits that they wouldnt have time to sell parts. These guys arent building *****-to-the-wall-go-fast-chips. They're building the best they can for the masses with a reasonable expectation of all the peoples hands this chip could reasonably find its way into. They have to build us a chip that imrresses us and protects them. We've all seen the idiots that come and go on this forum and these chipmakers have the impossible task of making chips even for those guys and I think they've done a bangup job of that considering we havent seen one of those morons blow his car up yet. I'd say someone is doing something VERY VERY right.

Cliff

or until the next group of new TT owners discovers the forum. Nice post. Thanx.