mne

Yesterday I was invited by a group of Audi enthusiasts here in the Denver area to meet up at Red Rocks for a little get-together then a Sunday drive up into the mountains. I was going to be the only TT in attendance. Going up everything was fine... gorgeous day, gorgeous cars, nice guys (one gal) and some breathtaking scenery. We stopped at the top, parked our cars, talked and 'oggled' Audis for awhile. There were nine cars in attendance including a new S4. I noticed on the way up I couldnt pull him uphill without staying high in the revs or downshifting... he was able to stay in one gear and let torque do all the work while I'm up/down shifting like a one armed paper-hanger. Impressive car... I WANT his engine/tranny/HP/torque in MY car!!

After an hour or so break at the top of the hill we all say our goodbyes as we're gonna head back down the mountain and people will be taking various exits/off ramps along the way to their respective parts of town. The cool thing about caravan'ing amongst a group of avid, if not rabid, Audi enthusiasts is that if there's no one ahead of 'em they DON'T dawdle gettin down the mountain... if theres a clear road ahead of the lead car, hold onto yer britches!! Lots of hairpin turns, steep cut-backs and blind corners around carved-out rock. Not alot of speed relatively spekaing but more than double the posted warning signs. On one of these right handers I saw the car ahead of me get on the brakes just as he disappeared behind the rock wall... telling me I better slow up. I was cooking it into that corner pretty good and not wanting to know him 'intimately' when I got around it I turned the wheel to the right,just setting up for the turn, tapped the break firmly but fast... more of a hard-on-then-off immediately kinda 'blip.' Good thing too... next thing I new I was facing the rock wall, head-on and my rear end was suddenly at about an 8:30 axis in relation to where I needed it to be, or where the front tires were pointed. Back on the gas HARD and it straightened itself out and no one was the wiser... cept the shiney new A4 with paper plates behind me. Prolly raised his eyebrow a notch or two. And this was at about 45mph, in second gear... not fast enuf for a spoiler to save me or offer much in the way of down-force. It WAS pilot error... make no mistake about it. I did this. I wanted to know what all the hoop-lah was about and now I know. It doesnt take alot of speed to induce this phenomenon, but it would be exaggerated at high speed. And I got on the brakes harder for just an instant than I should've. But I was still a little surprised at how abruptly it can happen. And I was equally delighted at fast I was able to recover from it. But dont think for a minute you cant get this car sideways guys and gals. At speed, just let off the gas, point the wheels left or right and simultaneously tap the brake pedal once firmly but quickly. I prolly dont want the "free upgrade" (de-tuned suspension) either... preferring instead to learn to drive this one proficiently. But if everyone I drive in rush hour with were to have a TT, I'd want them to have it... or they're gonna hurt someone. Theres definately a kinship between this TT and the 911's I've owned. The 911 being even more prone to weight shift it can get rear-end happy by just letting off the gas. But the TT will match it if you handicap it just a bit with a tap of the brake pedal, unloading weight off the rear. The car isn't broke... it jus begs to be driven. But a good driving school or an autocross circuit or some 'track' time would be a great hedge against this little nuance of spirited driving.

Dave G

I also have experienced the back end swinging out
in corners, accompanied with loud screech from the
rear tires.

Makes the car so much more INTERESTING don't ya think?

180Q

Andy W

My first experience of this, happend in the wet at sixty on a right hander. As you can imagine, the cars back end swung out violently when I braked, and I only regained control by re-applying throttle and suffering lock to lock.

I'm not so concerned now as the rule is not to brake so harshly and plan your lines.

Andy

John TT

I read with much joy your comparison of the rear end with a 911. I'd be very interested to hear any further comments on comparing the phenomenon among the cars. Having never owned a 911 and only driven ones owned by friends, I've never had the chance to fully test out what everybody knows about the rear end of the car, which I am led to understand is controllable if you know your car and know what your doing. You obviously seem to think that this is probably the case with the TT.

Last spring I began shopping for a used 911 with a budget of about 30k (which with patience would probably get me into a relatively low mileage 89 - 91 coupe which would more or less have 220 hp). I then walked in an Audi dealership in May and walked out #1 on the waiting list with a deposit down on a 225Q. With all the rear end bs coming to life and a wait that can get me down (which may now be even longer), I begin to wonder if I made the right decision - or if I should start looking at 911's again (no other car is an option in my eyes).

With your experience with both cars, I look forward to any confirmation you could provide (what 911's have you owned?). BTW, this will be a 3rd car which will hopefully see time at the track once or twice a year, but will mostly get used around town and on long weekends. I like to drive fast near (but within) my (and my car's) limits. There is of course no need to mention the aura of the TT cockpit vs. a 911, nor the comfort/cargo factor on a several hundred mile trip. Thanks.

PS: no comparisons to anything with a whale tail. my wife has absolutely forbidden it (she's allowed to draw the line somewhere!)

CraigB

<center><img src="http://www.users.uswest.net/~craiger/mance2.jpg"></center><p>Glad you could make it Mance. Where were we when this happened?

Later!
CraigB

mne

I was 2nd from last on return leg... only dealer loaner was behind me. Thanks for the 'invite' (nt)

PeterK

Doesn't look like Potenzas on the rear . What tires/wheels/ size are you running. Yokahamas? (nt)

hal

Just curious, I haven't been able to swing my rear yet, maybe haven't been hard enough on the brakes.
Did you recover with opposite lock or just the throttle?
I also had a 911 ('86), no comparison-TT appears much more stable, nowhere near as tail happy, especially in the wet (mine appears glued to the road)-I dropped tire pressure to 32 front and 30 in rear-makes car much more neutral- no more understeer, but should be much more prone to tail happiness.
have fun-Hal

mne

18x8.5" BBS LeMans forged magnesium wheels with Potenza OS-2 225/40ZR18's (nt)

KJK

My friend has a 91 C2, suspension, S02's and a little engine work. The Porsche really likes to be driven hard and is made to withstand that type of punishment. I think a C2 runs a mid 14 in the 1/4 and we all know about Porsche brakes--the hotter they get the stickier they get.

It just depends on what you want. He describes his car as raw and beastly. Really two totally different cars in my opinion.