Tire review...Sumitomo HTR+ All Seasons (LONG)
10-31-2003, 08:02 AM
#1
AudiWorld Senior Member
Thread Starter
Tire review...Sumitomo HTR+ All Seasons (LONG)
well, after hours and hours of doing research on tires for my TT application, I bought these and will be swapping them. For any that may care/apply, here are my observations
First, the environment: Northern Virginia, so we get cold, rain, sleet, heavy dew that freezes, etc. THis past winter was a "beetch". I live 35 miles from work, out to the west, in the country, so I have a combination of (from work to home) city, interstate, state roads, and county roads. These get treated in that order, if there is snow/ice. Storms come generally from the west, so if it starts doing something at home, and I'm at work, I have to head into it. Plus, I have 280 feet of uphill asphalt driveway to get to the street, some of it pretty steep. This can be interesting sometimes if it is not dry, esp after it has been cleared of "most" snow. Freezing rain at those pivotal temps can make it impossible to get up the hill.
The vehicles: 225 quattro coupe, Bilstein Sports and Eibachs, that I LOVE to drive, any chance I can. Not getting to drive it, for any reason, is a major disappointment to me. But, I'm also lucky enough to have an Avalance and a 97 4Runner. The Toyota is a great vehicle, and is my "bad weather" resource. If I think or know it's going to be bad, I park it at the top of the hill and leave the TT safely in the garage.
The Dilemma: Rears on the SportContacts were getting marginal, esp for the changing weather so started looking at options. An A/S tire seemed like a reasonable way to go, if I could have handling, ride, traction all in one tire. The reports on Tire Rack were very informative and helpful for reference, but the decision was the hard part. Tire size also fitted into my equation. I'm running 17x8.5 BBS CHs, and a 225-45 looked a little "stretched" for that width. I also considered moving up to 234-45 or 245-40; however, my rim-to-strut clearance was minimal, even with 4mm spacers. I had no way to know if a wider section tire would clear or not, so ordering over the internet posed a great deal of risk. In the local area, for some reason, finding 225-45s in stock is impossible, but I was able to find the 235-45 Sumi's. Reviews and some posts (Yokotta)indicated this was a good choice, and the stats didn't look bad, so last Fri I had them mounted. Fit was OK, it's a good looking tire with a nice non-directional tread, so the ability to rotate side-to-side was good. Got them for $104/tire pls M&B. That's about half of the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S.
From reading reviews, a couple of statements really worried me: "almost as good handling", "only lost a little", "turned my race car-feel into a Buick", etc.
I had NTB promise me that if I was unhappy with them, I could swap them for credit on the higher price tire.
First impressions: I was prepared for the squiggly new-tread feeling of the tires until they had heat cycled a few times, but I was totally unprepared for the sidewall flex. Whereas, before on the Pilots or the Contis, I could "slalom" the steering wheel 2 inches either way and literally change lanes, on these tires there was no direction change, just this very uncomfortable squirmy shake-yo-butt feeling. I have not driven the car about 350 miles, and that has not changed any. The tires have good grip, wet and dry, but to drive them is unsettling. It takes so long for them to take a set, and then there is pronounced mushiness to them when you load the sidewalls. The ride is very comfortable, very quiet, and I can tell it's a well-made tire, but it has no sporting pretensions even if it is an ultrahigh performance rated tire. If all you were going to do with your car is tour, it would be OK, I guess. I've experimented with pressures from 38/36 down to 34/32, and the only difference I could tell is that the car is more "bouncy" with the higher pressures.
Second impression: Braking is drastically changed. I'm running cross drilled Zimmermans and Mintex Red Box, and braking was always superb. Slowdown from any speed was immediate, even at light pedal pressure. With these tires, stopping distance is longer with more pedal effort, and the braking "feel" is completely different. Again, NOT confidence inspiring.
The second dilemma: now what? Don't like the Sumi's, so should I go with the Pilot A/S??
After more hours of research and deliberation, I've decided to go with the Goodyear F1 GS-D3s. Could have moved to the S03s, as NTB carries them, but after all the reviews about tramlining and the fact that all the roads I drive on daily have serious conditions that would promote that, I decided that I'd go with the GYs, and stay at the 225-45 size. I think the taller tire, even if it is only .5" might contribute some to the feel of the Sumi's.
My final decision not to go with the A/S came down to the fact that I didn't want to suboptimize the handling I so appreciate about the TT, with mods, for 9 months of the year so that I might be better prepared for what might occur only for a cumulative three or four weeks of the year. Since I have the 4Runner to fall back on, makes sense.
For others considering the A/S, I can offer that if you value handling, the Sumi is prob not the tire for you. Can't speak to the Michelins, but the number of people who wrote reviews that mirrored my experience above led me not to invest almost $1,000 total to find out. Looking at the specs, just as with the Sumi's, doesn't give the whole picture, and looking at the difference in braking distances really helped make my mind up on summer versus A/S. When it's cold, I'll just take it easy until I get some heat in the GYs, or drive the 4 Runner.
Didn't mean to take so long, but I know there's a lot of other people out there just like me, trying to decide before the weather gets bad whether they should buy an A/S tire or not. There may be others that are happy, but I thought I'd share this with you. To me, the ability to heel and toe downshift into third as you late brake-late apex a turn and power out of it is just orgasmic. Not something I want to give up for A/S "peace of mind".
Cheers and have a great weekend!
Fig
First, the environment: Northern Virginia, so we get cold, rain, sleet, heavy dew that freezes, etc. THis past winter was a "beetch". I live 35 miles from work, out to the west, in the country, so I have a combination of (from work to home) city, interstate, state roads, and county roads. These get treated in that order, if there is snow/ice. Storms come generally from the west, so if it starts doing something at home, and I'm at work, I have to head into it. Plus, I have 280 feet of uphill asphalt driveway to get to the street, some of it pretty steep. This can be interesting sometimes if it is not dry, esp after it has been cleared of "most" snow. Freezing rain at those pivotal temps can make it impossible to get up the hill.
The vehicles: 225 quattro coupe, Bilstein Sports and Eibachs, that I LOVE to drive, any chance I can. Not getting to drive it, for any reason, is a major disappointment to me. But, I'm also lucky enough to have an Avalance and a 97 4Runner. The Toyota is a great vehicle, and is my "bad weather" resource. If I think or know it's going to be bad, I park it at the top of the hill and leave the TT safely in the garage.
The Dilemma: Rears on the SportContacts were getting marginal, esp for the changing weather so started looking at options. An A/S tire seemed like a reasonable way to go, if I could have handling, ride, traction all in one tire. The reports on Tire Rack were very informative and helpful for reference, but the decision was the hard part. Tire size also fitted into my equation. I'm running 17x8.5 BBS CHs, and a 225-45 looked a little "stretched" for that width. I also considered moving up to 234-45 or 245-40; however, my rim-to-strut clearance was minimal, even with 4mm spacers. I had no way to know if a wider section tire would clear or not, so ordering over the internet posed a great deal of risk. In the local area, for some reason, finding 225-45s in stock is impossible, but I was able to find the 235-45 Sumi's. Reviews and some posts (Yokotta)indicated this was a good choice, and the stats didn't look bad, so last Fri I had them mounted. Fit was OK, it's a good looking tire with a nice non-directional tread, so the ability to rotate side-to-side was good. Got them for $104/tire pls M&B. That's about half of the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S.
From reading reviews, a couple of statements really worried me: "almost as good handling", "only lost a little", "turned my race car-feel into a Buick", etc.
I had NTB promise me that if I was unhappy with them, I could swap them for credit on the higher price tire.
First impressions: I was prepared for the squiggly new-tread feeling of the tires until they had heat cycled a few times, but I was totally unprepared for the sidewall flex. Whereas, before on the Pilots or the Contis, I could "slalom" the steering wheel 2 inches either way and literally change lanes, on these tires there was no direction change, just this very uncomfortable squirmy shake-yo-butt feeling. I have not driven the car about 350 miles, and that has not changed any. The tires have good grip, wet and dry, but to drive them is unsettling. It takes so long for them to take a set, and then there is pronounced mushiness to them when you load the sidewalls. The ride is very comfortable, very quiet, and I can tell it's a well-made tire, but it has no sporting pretensions even if it is an ultrahigh performance rated tire. If all you were going to do with your car is tour, it would be OK, I guess. I've experimented with pressures from 38/36 down to 34/32, and the only difference I could tell is that the car is more "bouncy" with the higher pressures.
Second impression: Braking is drastically changed. I'm running cross drilled Zimmermans and Mintex Red Box, and braking was always superb. Slowdown from any speed was immediate, even at light pedal pressure. With these tires, stopping distance is longer with more pedal effort, and the braking "feel" is completely different. Again, NOT confidence inspiring.
The second dilemma: now what? Don't like the Sumi's, so should I go with the Pilot A/S??
After more hours of research and deliberation, I've decided to go with the Goodyear F1 GS-D3s. Could have moved to the S03s, as NTB carries them, but after all the reviews about tramlining and the fact that all the roads I drive on daily have serious conditions that would promote that, I decided that I'd go with the GYs, and stay at the 225-45 size. I think the taller tire, even if it is only .5" might contribute some to the feel of the Sumi's.
My final decision not to go with the A/S came down to the fact that I didn't want to suboptimize the handling I so appreciate about the TT, with mods, for 9 months of the year so that I might be better prepared for what might occur only for a cumulative three or four weeks of the year. Since I have the 4Runner to fall back on, makes sense.
For others considering the A/S, I can offer that if you value handling, the Sumi is prob not the tire for you. Can't speak to the Michelins, but the number of people who wrote reviews that mirrored my experience above led me not to invest almost $1,000 total to find out. Looking at the specs, just as with the Sumi's, doesn't give the whole picture, and looking at the difference in braking distances really helped make my mind up on summer versus A/S. When it's cold, I'll just take it easy until I get some heat in the GYs, or drive the 4 Runner.
Didn't mean to take so long, but I know there's a lot of other people out there just like me, trying to decide before the weather gets bad whether they should buy an A/S tire or not. There may be others that are happy, but I thought I'd share this with you. To me, the ability to heel and toe downshift into third as you late brake-late apex a turn and power out of it is just orgasmic. Not something I want to give up for A/S "peace of mind".
Cheers and have a great weekend!
Fig
10-31-2003, 08:09 AM
#3
AudiWorld Senior Member
Thread Starter
Yeah, but if I'd read something like this first.... :>)
I prob wouldn't have gone with the first decision to try the A/S. Now I know, at least.
FIg
FIg
10-31-2003, 08:50 AM
#7
AudiWorld Senior Member
Thread Starter
I read up, but couldn't find locally to try fit on wheels >
didn't want to order and then have to worry about returning if size didn't give me enough clearance to the struts.
fig
fig
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10-31-2003, 09:55 AM
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