Whats the difference between engines? AMU? BEA? etc.
02-12-2009, 09:29 PM
#3
AudiWorld Member
Thread Starter
Found some info, don't know how credible??
TT Engine Info
Another bit of misinformation that comes up often and which really bothers me to read regards TT engines. Usually it goes something like:
"Hey, I'm looking at buying a TT to run a big turbo setup on, which is a better platform for this, the 225 or 180?"
"Get a 225, the block is stronger, the internals are stronger and the injectors are bigger than on a 180"
"Ok awesome, I'll go [waste money] and buy a 225."
The fact of the matter is that 180 and 225 motors are not all that different (minus their turbo setups) especially if you compare motors from the same model year. I will outline the major similarities and differences (please note these are for US TTs, may not apply to European models):
First, there are four different 1.8T motors that were used in the TT, by engine code they are:
In the 180 - ATC, AWP
In the 225 - AMU, BEA
All 1.8T TTs have a forged crank, rods and pistons. Yes, all TTs, right down to the FWD have forged internals. The stock crank has yet to break from a high HP applicatoin, same with the pistons; they are made by Mahle and have withstood over 700 bhp. The part prone to failure is the rods, which is discussed below.
Rods in 1.8T TTs vary in size, but some 180 and 225 models have the same rods. The ATC motor, used in model year 2000 TTs, uses 20mm wrist pin rods, which makes its internals IDENTICAL (strength wise) to those used in both 225 motors. Therefore it is false to say a 2000 TT's motor is weaker than a 225's. However, in 2001, Audi started using the AWP motor which does in fact have weaker 19mm rods. Whichever motor you use, I really wouldn't trust the stock rods to handle anything over 300 ft-lbs of torque anyway, since this is right around where rods start snapping, unless you have the car tuned extremely well.
The 225 has a "webbed" block...but nobody has broken a 180 block yet anyway. Audi included some "webbing" around the 225 block to increase its strength. Truth is, nobody has made too much power for the 180 block yet; the stock block is iron and doesn't need sleeved to handle big power.
Some TTs have wideband oxygen sensors, some have narrow band. Basically, early TTs did not use a wideband oxygen sensor and later models did. Yes, that means not all 225s have wideband; the AMU 225 motor, used until somewhere in 2003, still uses narrowband. The AWP 180 motor, used in TTs since 2001, incorporates wideband. In a nutshell, ATC 180s and AMU 225s don't have wideband, AWP 180s and BEA 225s do have wideband.
Wideband is a highly desirable option for tuning, since it allows the engine to precisely control air fuel ratios to the point where you can run your car without a MAF sensor.
The 180 and 225 have different compression ratios. The 180hp TT has 9.5:1 compression whereas the 225hp TT has 9.0:1. While the 180hp TT's is only marginally higher, it does in essence mean a 180 will make more power on the same setup. Imagine that, a 180 making more power than a 225.
225s have bigger injectors, but in a big turbo application, you will be replacing them anyway. 225s have 380cc injectors whereas 180s have 318cc. But injectors have to be swapped out anwyay, so who cares?
Some TTs have variable valve timing, but it's not for performance. VVT is used on startup for emissions and makes for ridiculously expensive cam chain tensioners.
As you can see, when choosing a car for a big turbo application, one needs to be a little more selective about what type of engine is in the car, rather than just going by the 225 > 180 mindset, since you'll find it's not true. My suggestion for a car to build a big turbo on would be an early AWP car, since it has the wideband O2 yet is old enough to be a cheap buy to begin with.
For a strictly bolt on car, the 225 is an obvious better choice, since it will yield more power from just bolt ons.
Posted by some guy named Filip from http://audittmk1.blogspot.com
Another bit of misinformation that comes up often and which really bothers me to read regards TT engines. Usually it goes something like:
"Hey, I'm looking at buying a TT to run a big turbo setup on, which is a better platform for this, the 225 or 180?"
"Get a 225, the block is stronger, the internals are stronger and the injectors are bigger than on a 180"
"Ok awesome, I'll go [waste money] and buy a 225."
The fact of the matter is that 180 and 225 motors are not all that different (minus their turbo setups) especially if you compare motors from the same model year. I will outline the major similarities and differences (please note these are for US TTs, may not apply to European models):
First, there are four different 1.8T motors that were used in the TT, by engine code they are:
In the 180 - ATC, AWP
In the 225 - AMU, BEA
All 1.8T TTs have a forged crank, rods and pistons. Yes, all TTs, right down to the FWD have forged internals. The stock crank has yet to break from a high HP applicatoin, same with the pistons; they are made by Mahle and have withstood over 700 bhp. The part prone to failure is the rods, which is discussed below.
Rods in 1.8T TTs vary in size, but some 180 and 225 models have the same rods. The ATC motor, used in model year 2000 TTs, uses 20mm wrist pin rods, which makes its internals IDENTICAL (strength wise) to those used in both 225 motors. Therefore it is false to say a 2000 TT's motor is weaker than a 225's. However, in 2001, Audi started using the AWP motor which does in fact have weaker 19mm rods. Whichever motor you use, I really wouldn't trust the stock rods to handle anything over 300 ft-lbs of torque anyway, since this is right around where rods start snapping, unless you have the car tuned extremely well.
The 225 has a "webbed" block...but nobody has broken a 180 block yet anyway. Audi included some "webbing" around the 225 block to increase its strength. Truth is, nobody has made too much power for the 180 block yet; the stock block is iron and doesn't need sleeved to handle big power.
Some TTs have wideband oxygen sensors, some have narrow band. Basically, early TTs did not use a wideband oxygen sensor and later models did. Yes, that means not all 225s have wideband; the AMU 225 motor, used until somewhere in 2003, still uses narrowband. The AWP 180 motor, used in TTs since 2001, incorporates wideband. In a nutshell, ATC 180s and AMU 225s don't have wideband, AWP 180s and BEA 225s do have wideband.
Wideband is a highly desirable option for tuning, since it allows the engine to precisely control air fuel ratios to the point where you can run your car without a MAF sensor.
The 180 and 225 have different compression ratios. The 180hp TT has 9.5:1 compression whereas the 225hp TT has 9.0:1. While the 180hp TT's is only marginally higher, it does in essence mean a 180 will make more power on the same setup. Imagine that, a 180 making more power than a 225.
225s have bigger injectors, but in a big turbo application, you will be replacing them anyway. 225s have 380cc injectors whereas 180s have 318cc. But injectors have to be swapped out anwyay, so who cares?
Some TTs have variable valve timing, but it's not for performance. VVT is used on startup for emissions and makes for ridiculously expensive cam chain tensioners.
As you can see, when choosing a car for a big turbo application, one needs to be a little more selective about what type of engine is in the car, rather than just going by the 225 > 180 mindset, since you'll find it's not true. My suggestion for a car to build a big turbo on would be an early AWP car, since it has the wideband O2 yet is old enough to be a cheap buy to begin with.
For a strictly bolt on car, the 225 is an obvious better choice, since it will yield more power from just bolt ons.
Posted by some guy named Filip from http://audittmk1.blogspot.com
The following 3 users liked this post by VelveTTrevolvr:
02-13-2009, 12:14 PM
#5
But be careful w/ some of those statements.........
in todays market, you are not more than likely paying more for a 225 than a 180. yes you can find it a year older than a 225, but really a mute point when concidering how cheap the cars are now.
You get a better tranny w/ the 6spd
you get bigger rear brakes
BOTH important when big turboing. brakes are obvious, the tranny in a 6spd really helps w/ lag. the short gears get you thru lag VERY quickly. this helps big on a car you plan to drive on the streets or road course.
also you mentioned "with the same set up" you'd make more power out of the 180. but most would like the fact that they could run more boost or timing due to the lower compression the 225 offers. why keep the same set up when there's more ceiling left.
You get a better tranny w/ the 6spd
you get bigger rear brakes
BOTH important when big turboing. brakes are obvious, the tranny in a 6spd really helps w/ lag. the short gears get you thru lag VERY quickly. this helps big on a car you plan to drive on the streets or road course.
also you mentioned "with the same set up" you'd make more power out of the 180. but most would like the fact that they could run more boost or timing due to the lower compression the 225 offers. why keep the same set up when there's more ceiling left.
04-24-2016, 06:09 AM
#7
AudiWorld Senior Member
Looks like all 2001 TT225 are narrow band AMU:
2000-2002 TT 1.8L Turbo DOHC I-4 (180hp): ATC
2000 Only TT 1.8L Turbo DOHC I-4 (180hp): ATW
2001-2003 TT 1.8L Turbo DOHC I-4 (225hp): AMU
2003 Only TT 1.8L Turbo DOHC I-4 (225hp): BEA
2004-Current TT 3.2L NA DOHC V6 (250hp): BKH
2000-2002 TT 1.8L Turbo DOHC I-4 (180hp): ATC
2000 Only TT 1.8L Turbo DOHC I-4 (180hp): ATW
2001-2003 TT 1.8L Turbo DOHC I-4 (225hp): AMU
2003 Only TT 1.8L Turbo DOHC I-4 (225hp): BEA
2004-Current TT 3.2L NA DOHC V6 (250hp): BKH
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04-24-2016, 08:18 AM
#8
AudiWorld Super User
Post of the year on this board. Excellent info.
TT Engine Info
Another bit of misinformation that comes up often and which really bothers me to read regards TT engines. Usually it goes something like:
"Hey, I'm looking at buying a TT to run a big turbo setup on, which is a better platform for this, the 225 or 180?"
"Get a 225, the block is stronger, the internals are stronger and the injectors are bigger than on a 180"
"Ok awesome, I'll go [waste money] and buy a 225."
The fact of the matter is that 180 and 225 motors are not all that different (minus their turbo setups) especially if you compare motors from the same model year. I will outline the major similarities and differences (please note these are for US TTs, may not apply to European models):
First, there are four different 1.8T motors that were used in the TT, by engine code they are:
In the 180 - ATC, AWP
In the 225 - AMU, BEA
All 1.8T TTs have a forged crank, rods and pistons. Yes, all TTs, right down to the FWD have forged internals. The stock crank has yet to break from a high HP applicatoin, same with the pistons; they are made by Mahle and have withstood over 700 bhp. The part prone to failure is the rods, which is discussed below.
Rods in 1.8T TTs vary in size, but some 180 and 225 models have the same rods. The ATC motor, used in model year 2000 TTs, uses 20mm wrist pin rods, which makes its internals IDENTICAL (strength wise) to those used in both 225 motors. Therefore it is false to say a 2000 TT's motor is weaker than a 225's. However, in 2001, Audi started using the AWP motor which does in fact have weaker 19mm rods. Whichever motor you use, I really wouldn't trust the stock rods to handle anything over 300 ft-lbs of torque anyway, since this is right around where rods start snapping, unless you have the car tuned extremely well.
The 225 has a "webbed" block...but nobody has broken a 180 block yet anyway. Audi included some "webbing" around the 225 block to increase its strength. Truth is, nobody has made too much power for the 180 block yet; the stock block is iron and doesn't need sleeved to handle big power.
Some TTs have wideband oxygen sensors, some have narrow band. Basically, early TTs did not use a wideband oxygen sensor and later models did. Yes, that means not all 225s have wideband; the AMU 225 motor, used until somewhere in 2003, still uses narrowband. The AWP 180 motor, used in TTs since 2001, incorporates wideband. In a nutshell, ATC 180s and AMU 225s don't have wideband, AWP 180s and BEA 225s do have wideband.
Wideband is a highly desirable option for tuning, since it allows the engine to precisely control air fuel ratios to the point where you can run your car without a MAF sensor.
The 180 and 225 have different compression ratios. The 180hp TT has 9.5:1 compression whereas the 225hp TT has 9.0:1. While the 180hp TT's is only marginally higher, it does in essence mean a 180 will make more power on the same setup. Imagine that, a 180 making more power than a 225.
225s have bigger injectors, but in a big turbo application, you will be replacing them anyway. 225s have 380cc injectors whereas 180s have 318cc. But injectors have to be swapped out anwyay, so who cares?
Some TTs have variable valve timing, but it's not for performance. VVT is used on startup for emissions and makes for ridiculously expensive cam chain tensioners.
As you can see, when choosing a car for a big turbo application, one needs to be a little more selective about what type of engine is in the car, rather than just going by the 225 > 180 mindset, since you'll find it's not true. My suggestion for a car to build a big turbo on would be an early AWP car, since it has the wideband O2 yet is old enough to be a cheap buy to begin with.
For a strictly bolt on car, the 225 is an obvious better choice, since it will yield more power from just bolt ons.
Posted by some guy named Filip from The Mk1 Audi TT Enthusiast Guide
Another bit of misinformation that comes up often and which really bothers me to read regards TT engines. Usually it goes something like:
"Hey, I'm looking at buying a TT to run a big turbo setup on, which is a better platform for this, the 225 or 180?"
"Get a 225, the block is stronger, the internals are stronger and the injectors are bigger than on a 180"
"Ok awesome, I'll go [waste money] and buy a 225."
The fact of the matter is that 180 and 225 motors are not all that different (minus their turbo setups) especially if you compare motors from the same model year. I will outline the major similarities and differences (please note these are for US TTs, may not apply to European models):
First, there are four different 1.8T motors that were used in the TT, by engine code they are:
In the 180 - ATC, AWP
In the 225 - AMU, BEA
All 1.8T TTs have a forged crank, rods and pistons. Yes, all TTs, right down to the FWD have forged internals. The stock crank has yet to break from a high HP applicatoin, same with the pistons; they are made by Mahle and have withstood over 700 bhp. The part prone to failure is the rods, which is discussed below.
Rods in 1.8T TTs vary in size, but some 180 and 225 models have the same rods. The ATC motor, used in model year 2000 TTs, uses 20mm wrist pin rods, which makes its internals IDENTICAL (strength wise) to those used in both 225 motors. Therefore it is false to say a 2000 TT's motor is weaker than a 225's. However, in 2001, Audi started using the AWP motor which does in fact have weaker 19mm rods. Whichever motor you use, I really wouldn't trust the stock rods to handle anything over 300 ft-lbs of torque anyway, since this is right around where rods start snapping, unless you have the car tuned extremely well.
The 225 has a "webbed" block...but nobody has broken a 180 block yet anyway. Audi included some "webbing" around the 225 block to increase its strength. Truth is, nobody has made too much power for the 180 block yet; the stock block is iron and doesn't need sleeved to handle big power.
Some TTs have wideband oxygen sensors, some have narrow band. Basically, early TTs did not use a wideband oxygen sensor and later models did. Yes, that means not all 225s have wideband; the AMU 225 motor, used until somewhere in 2003, still uses narrowband. The AWP 180 motor, used in TTs since 2001, incorporates wideband. In a nutshell, ATC 180s and AMU 225s don't have wideband, AWP 180s and BEA 225s do have wideband.
Wideband is a highly desirable option for tuning, since it allows the engine to precisely control air fuel ratios to the point where you can run your car without a MAF sensor.
The 180 and 225 have different compression ratios. The 180hp TT has 9.5:1 compression whereas the 225hp TT has 9.0:1. While the 180hp TT's is only marginally higher, it does in essence mean a 180 will make more power on the same setup. Imagine that, a 180 making more power than a 225.
225s have bigger injectors, but in a big turbo application, you will be replacing them anyway. 225s have 380cc injectors whereas 180s have 318cc. But injectors have to be swapped out anwyay, so who cares?
Some TTs have variable valve timing, but it's not for performance. VVT is used on startup for emissions and makes for ridiculously expensive cam chain tensioners.
As you can see, when choosing a car for a big turbo application, one needs to be a little more selective about what type of engine is in the car, rather than just going by the 225 > 180 mindset, since you'll find it's not true. My suggestion for a car to build a big turbo on would be an early AWP car, since it has the wideband O2 yet is old enough to be a cheap buy to begin with.
For a strictly bolt on car, the 225 is an obvious better choice, since it will yield more power from just bolt ons.
Posted by some guy named Filip from The Mk1 Audi TT Enthusiast Guide
The following users liked this post:
emumme (06-22-2021)
10-30-2017, 05:19 AM
#9
AudiWorld Senior Member
Starting to look into a swap motor (for higher boost, E85) for my TT225 AMU 6spd.
With new rods (and likely bearings, seals, oil pump, rings, etc), I was about to think pretty much any 1.8T transverse block will do for my purpose. But then noticed COMPRESSION.
9.5 on some 1.8T vs. the lower 9.0 of the AMU.
I do NOT want to put new pistons in (no need, plenty good).
So the question: should I stay away from 9.5 compression blocks as the basis?
What other blocks (engine codes, donor cars) are suitable (in general)?
What other blocks (engine codes, donor cars) have low compression and are suitable?
With new rods (and likely bearings, seals, oil pump, rings, etc), I was about to think pretty much any 1.8T transverse block will do for my purpose. But then noticed COMPRESSION.
9.5 on some 1.8T vs. the lower 9.0 of the AMU.
I do NOT want to put new pistons in (no need, plenty good).
So the question: should I stay away from 9.5 compression blocks as the basis?
What other blocks (engine codes, donor cars) are suitable (in general)?
What other blocks (engine codes, donor cars) have low compression and are suitable?
10-30-2017, 06:15 AM
#10
AudiWorld Super User
It is AMU
Looking at a 2001 TT225 quattro manual. Vin TRUWT28N711019949 . Can I tell if it is BEA or AMU (wideband or narrow band)?
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