More on Defective 2004 Audi A8 L(emon)
 

For greenie and others who asked for updates:

Further news and bugs:


7/29/03

I received a call from Sabrina Burrow, Service Consultant at Prestige Imports in North Miami, Florida (the selling dealer). She said car was being made ready for pickup later today.

I asked her about the repair to the headlight leveling sensor performed on 7/17/03-7/18/03. I asked whether only one sensor was replaced or whether both sensors were replaced. She replied that only the part that had actually failed was replaced.

I replied to her that on 7/24/03, in a telephone conversation with Mr. Ron Hankley, Audi area representative, he informed me that Audi had determined that these sensors were defective in manufacture and that Audi was replacing them on all new vehicles as the cars were received at the ports of entry.

Ms. Burrow responded that Prestige Imports had no authority from Audi to replace any parts other than those which actually failed in service and could not make replacement of the other sensor as they had received no directive to this effect from Audi of America.

Therefore, Audi of America and Prestige Imports are knowingly returning the vehicle to me with a part known to be likely be defective, even after one of them failed on my vehicle.


7/29/03, 1 PM:

I received a telephone call from Ron Hankley, presumably in response to my email or post regarding my conversation with Sabrina Burrow of this date.

He stated that he had instructed Carlos Pachas and Sabrina Burrow to replace all the sensors in the car and that Prestige Imports' failure to do this was due to their oversight in not ordering the additional parts at the time.

He then went on the state that these parts are not "defective" and that his (Audi's) willingness to replace them was intended as a good-will gesture rather than a matter of correcting a defect.

I reminded him that he had told me that Audi was replacing the sensors on incoming shipments of vehicles at the USA POEs. He began to quibble with this but then accepted that my recollection of our conversation was factually accurate but that it did not obligate Audi of America to replace the non-failed sensors in my car.

I pointed out to him that my goal in purchasing one of these vehicles was to obtain trouble-free service (including "routine maintenance") at a fixed cost and without the inconveniences and sacrifice of time that one associates with, for example, used cars, unreliable brands etc. and that I felt it was unreasonable to return the car to me with parts that were known to be likely to fail in service.

He then said that at this time there were no stocks of these parts remaining on hand and that it would therefore be counterproductive to retain the car tied up in the shop pending arrival of unavailable spares.

I said that is as it may be but that if I had to chose between having the pats ordered and, at a mutually convenient time, returning to service my car or in the alternative to simply wait for items to fail and then make arrangements for replacement at unpredictable intervals, I would chose the former.

I reminded Mr. Hankley that he and I did not have very good communication since, for example, in his initial conversation with me he offered me a replacement vehicle and some adjustment made to the lease for the time and inconvenience I have already undergone and that he had already effectively denied making this offer to me in our conversation of 7/28/03. I said that I viewed this as a "pissing contest", that is, a situation in which one party claims that one thing was said while the other denies that it is true.

He then asked me who many days the car had actually been in the shop since I received it. I counted and told him that it had been in shop once on 6/11/03, again on 7/8/03, on 7/17-7/18/03 at which time it was returned but immediately failed again at delivery and was therefore returned to service on 7/21/03 where it has been ever since. Depending on how you count the days, this comes out to 13 days.

He said to allow him to review this again with Prestige Imports and "make a few calls" and to await his return call

7/29/03 1:44 PM:

Mr.Hankley called back. He said that he had discussed my vehicle with Carlos Pachas (service department manager) at Prestige Imports and that Mr. Pachas would order the parts to replace the remaining suspension-system sensors and that Prestige Imports would make arrangements to replace them in the vehicle when the parts were ultimately available.

He stated that this was as far as he was able to go in attempting to satisfy me or to resolve my situation. He stated that I had certain rights under consumer protection statutes and that this might be an avenue I would have to pursue.

I responded by saying that I was astonished to find a company attempting to position itself as a serious competitor in this market segment at which the Audi A8 is targeted telling a consumer in my situation that his sole hope was to avail himself of the Lemon Law but that, of course, he had failed to resolve the core issue with my defective 2004 Audi A8 L(emon) Vin #WAUML44E24N000822: its basic unreliability and history of failures and downtime.

7/29/03: 5:40 PM

Picked up my 2004 Audi A8 L(emon) this afternoon at Prestige Motors afternoon of 7/29/03.

As dropped off, tank full, 531 miles.

As returned, tank empty (the out-of-gas light came on within a block of the dealership) and 723 miles. That's a heck of a test drive. 192 miles! I am of course eager to hear any comments on this from the dealer.

All the items for which the car was serviced appear to be functioning normally.

Within two hours of leaving Prestige Motors, my defective 2004 Audi A8 L(emon) was back in trouble mode. An "issue" (defect) which I had previously reported to both Prestige Motors and to Audi of America re-appeared.

I had the car's headlights set on "automatic" mode. It was daylight, around 5:40 PM. I parked the car, set the parking brake and turned of the ignition and withdrew the key. When I opened the driver's door the "headlights-on" warning tone sounded (although there was no indication on the dashboard relating to headlights and they did not, in fact, actually appear to be on.

I closed the door and the alarm stopped. I opened the door again, the alarm sounded.

I re-started the car and turned it off and opened the driver's door. The alarm came on.

I switched the headlight control to off, no change. I put it back on "Automatic", no change.

I re-started the car, turned the headlights "off" while the engine was running and stopped the car. Alarm gone. I put the headlight switch back in "Automatic" and turned the car on again and re-re-stopped it. removed key and opened driver door. Everything normal. Drove to next two destinations without further incident.

As mentioned above, I have had this happen to me before although on the previous occurrence the headlights actually were on and never shut down even after leaving the vehicle for 15+ minutes while shopping.

So what do I do? Is anyone interested? It is almost impossible to manage to actually bring this car to Prestige Motors and demonstrate this behavior as one has no knowledge as to whether this will happen at any given instance of turning this bug-infested vehicle off. Any suggestions besides simply learning to adore these little quirks? I am seriously seeking a reply from Audi here, not just being "funny." What can be done?

In any case, this is not an encouraging omen. It is, in fact, exactly what I had anticipated: more nuisance, more frustration, more fruitless trips to dealer etc. I like the ride and comfort of the car when it is operating properly, but I cannot live indefinitely with a different failure or "issue" on what seems to be a daily basis.

Relax, and enjoy the car for a week! Don't open the sun roof!
 

And just drive in daylight with the head lights off! For the second week, try the sunroof and on the third week you might try driving at night. That should do it! You gotta break 'em in easy fella. :-)

It's a lemon because the lights have a recurring problem?
 

I obviously haven't followed your story, so I imagine something else is wrong with your car to incur such anger. I completely understand, you don't want to spend this kind of ching and have stupid problems.

It sounds to me like a huge factor is service ineptitude. I live in SoFla and it's generally well known that Prestige offers the worst buying and service experience of any audi dealer around. You'd be much better off going to The Collection, but even they have a spotty reputation. I would highly recommend my service guy, James Edmunds at Champion in Pompano. His number is 954-946-4020. He's very competent, and Champion is selling tons of the new A8Ls so they know them pretty well. Good luck, report your progress.

Re: Relax, and enjoy the car for a week! Don't open the sun roof!
 

In my opinion, an INSENSITIVE reply to Buybeach who has recounted his frustrations with AoA with extreme candor and an amazing sense of recall(no pun intended Buybeach)! I have NEVER heard of a car company relying on specific consumer protection laws to cover their own asses. It would NOT cover much!! Audi has released this car prematurely in my opinion and without any sense of public relations. I have been involved in a number of Lemon Law cases, one being my own. If my law practice were in Fla., I would be sitting in your living room discussing the issues without any malice towards AoA PRO BONO. I suggest that you seek counsel from firms well acquanted with your states Lemon Laws and firmly establish that a "collateral exchange" is what you would like to pursue. I am not, in ANY way, indicting AoA. There are 04`s on the road that are giving their drivers much pleasure. But that is not the case here, especially when repeated attempts to repair or replace THE SAME FAILED parts fail in and of itself. As an aside, I am still looking forward with great anticipation the arrival of my 04. Hopefully, it will be one of those to give pleasure!


greenie

Man, that really sux...I'm so glad my dealership
 

stepped up and took care of my problem. But then, in their eyes, they sold me 2 vehicles so...

Re: Man, that really sux...I'm so glad my dealership
 

Hi Dinan. You can see the value of a reliable dealership and a personal relationship with them. This is my first venture with Audi so I made sure that I met "all of the players" and got a general sense of what they are all about. So where`s the 911 TT? Are you serious?

greenie

04 A8L silver/sabre 19" wheels late Aug. del

Re: More on Defective 2004 Audi A8 L(emon)
 

Call AOA headquarters and ask for Len Hunt!!! For 75K, you shouldn't have to put up with this garbage.

Relax greenie, b/4 everyone with a software bug wants blood!
 

Reminds me of "sudden acceleration"! Maybe Audi should just stop selling cars in America or at least wait a few years until they can perfect their dealer network and public relations skills.

AofA should just close the spotty dealers, sounds easy enough to do - just close them! What a great thought!

Better do it quick before sombody is blinded by washer fluid coming through an open sunroof.

As I understand it, most dealers got one to ten cars in the first batch last June. Some of these cars had a few problems. A few of those cars had more of the random problems than others. The service departments at the dealers were caught by surprise because they had never worked on a 2004 A8L before this. Duh.

Buyback is your L(emon) really that bad?
 

Sounds like a defective multifunction switch, not sudden acceleration or a cupholder problem. :-)

He bought the first car off the boat! He should expect trouble!

wow. audi clearly still equals VW. we feel for you.

Does it act funny with the lights in manual mode?
 

or just in automatic?

I know that its off when you switch back and forth with the car on/off, but perhaps the system has some adjustment time and this technique is not appropriate. What happens if you leave it in manual and don't mess with it?

If its a lemon, I think you have to stop driving it. That will help your claim that your dissatified with the vehicle.

A buy back because the auto feature on the headlights doesn't work??? You're kidding right?
 

You guys need to relax and quit looking at the small stuff, you don't need to get rid of a car because the headlight auto feature doesn't work.

Just turn them on and off manually. I've been doing it my whole life.

Yeah what he said.. :-)
 

but,,, it seems like the headlights might be acting funny in manual mode as well. That would be bad.

Ya know....I understand being upset......
 

But asking for a buy-back bacause your Headlight sensors aren't working properly, and there was a minor incident with the alarm going off (which might have happened if it was set impoperly.....

Besides the fact that you have already been offered by your rep that they would put you in a different car, and retweak yor lease for the time out of the A8.......Come on now, this is getting to be a bad joke - If ANYONE were to read this board, they'd think the A8 was the worst car ever built (which it might be, haven't had enough time to totally judge them YET, but I'm guessing it will be damn good in the long run).....

You all need to remember that you pay a premium for being the first on the block to have the newest and greatest toys, but with a rollout of new technology, such as the A8, there will be bumps in the road - The first people to buy a Laser disc players, the first DVD players, anyone remember the VHS or Beta debates?? If you have to be the first person to have something, you will be the guinnea pigs for it. Sucks to say, but thats just kind of the way it is in business.....

I really think Hey8's response was intended to add a little humor to a very tense situation - I don't think it was intended to be insensitive at all. Greenie, I understand your response, as from what Dinan, Potsie, and Buybeach has said, you're probably scared sh!tless as to the build quality of A8L you are waiting on delivery....kind of an idea of what is just going on sith society today.....If you aren't happy with something, sue - I heard about a guy on the news today who sued his doctor because he got into the exam room later than his appointment time - Maybe shakespeare was right about Lawyers......

C'mon, both sides cool it!
 

I agree that Buybeach's response to some minor electrical difficulties on a new model car is a bit extreme (IMO!), and it is not representative of all new D3 owner experiences. But you guys who are beating him up for his posts...cool it! I don't want Audiworld Forum to only be a place where people sit around and gush over their cars like schoolgirls with crushes. Sometimes things go wrong, and we should encourage people to be very specific (as Buybeach was) about those problems. What you guys call minor problems may be extremely annoying to him -- everyone is different. I'm glad to have a punch list of problems to watch out for when I take delivery.

Having said that, I think the focus of Buybeach's ire should be on poor service, not poor car quality. This IS a new car and is bound to have some bugs, especially electrical and software problems since it is impossible to beta-test EVERY potential situation that will send instructions to an I/O board or chip. I agree you inherit those problems if you are an early buyer. But it is how those situations are handled that should distinguish a luxury car from a Honda. At minimum, Buy should have an expectation that the dealer and AoA will work together (not force HIM to call back and forth to catch them in inconsistencies) to solve his problem to the best of their ability. To encourage him to avail himself of consumer protection laws because they don't want to hear his squeaky wheel anymore is ridiculous. This is a dealer-specific and AoA response problem first and foremost. Not a car problem per se.

But however he interprets it, let's please not discourage people from posting here just because they have something negative to say. We have room for all opinions here, like 'em or not.

Keep posting, but I'm just doing the same thing - posting
 

I see all of these posts from people that bought these cars, and almost none of it has to do with what can solve the problem.

If it's a light switch, use it in manual mode, and within 3 months the dealer will probably have it all figured out and will fix it. If not, what are you going to do? Give the car back?

With AoA importing probably 1,800-2,800 A8L's to the states a year (as with the previous A8), combined with the fact that you are dealing with a car dealer, it is going to be tough to get all the answers you need in the same day and solve technical problems with a car that has been in the states all of 60 days with a TOTALLY new electrical interface as compared to anything that has been previously brought here. It will take some time to solve these problems.

My dealer screwed up the service on my A8 3 out of 3 times - so what did I do? Not go there anymore and started audipages.com

It's quit relaxing to work on my car sometime.

Good luck solving your problem with the lights, I'm sure it's simple.

Paul

Re: C'mon, both sides cool it!
 

I think the Audi reps "suggestion" that he consider seeking lemon law protection was his way of warning Buy to chill a little. Stop the incitement and over the top demands.

This guy went into "kill" mode over a light switch and started with the "L" word with the dealer way too soon.

If he keeps referring to his car as a L(emon)then he's going to get responses regarding lemon laws.

I hear you Paul...
 

Not discouraging posts, just encouraging tolerance.

Greenie, me thinks you hope you get another one!
 

I hope you don't get a lemon, but you sure seem eager to get involved with one!

But seriously, as someone experienced with several lemon law cases including your own, what would you like to see happen here? What should Audi do to promote their image and in pursuit of excellent public relations?

If you were running things would you give him another car right off the bat, assuming there was one in stock with the options and color he wants.

Should Audi assemble a feet of carefully pre-tested replacement vehicles and store them in some central location stateside?

What will you do if something on your car isn't up to perfection, knowing that these problems exist and knowing, as you do, all the players? I would really appreciate a "guideline" from you. At what point should one become concerned about a quality issue? When do you call "Ghost busters"?

Actually the post wasn't very clear on one technical point.
 

It was very clear in regards to the person to person interactions with the dealership, etc. Thats a whole other thing... If you know what I mean.

If someone says stuff like "I just got my brand new car right off the dock and I got in and turned every gadget on and this one doesn't work. Its a lemon!" Obviously its a reactionary post and most of the replies will be just as reactionary. Its like crying "help I'm drowning!" while standing in two feet of water.

If the car in question (BuyBeach's A8L) is dangerous then its a serious problem. IMO, if the headlights stay on and drain the battery so the owner is left stranded or if they go off at night on their own then its a SERIOUS problem. Thats dangerous.

Here's the technical bit that is missing.. Its very important to really determine how serious this problem is..

What I want to know is if the headlights have these problems if left in manual mode. If the problems are isolated to engagement of the automatic system then it can and should be fixed without making a public fuss. I think its reasonable to leave the car in manual mode until the problem is worked out by Audi. Audi should do everthing possible to inconvenience the owner as little as possible.

Take the car to any place other than Prestige, 'nuff said.

Re: Greenie, me thinks you hope you get another one!
 

"Me thinks you hope to get another one?" Lets not turn this into a Yahoo post but if you start I will finish! Buybeach has had issues if quality control with his car as well as poor PR from AoA, including his dealer. Manufacturing and marketing vehicles or anything with this type of liability attached to it is never easy. How a manufacturer relates to his present and prospective customers either keeps him selling units or puts him behind the eight ball such as with Mercedes Benz and their "command" fiasco. I always try to see it from both angles even when it happened to me. Acura was terrific and when they didnt have an answer they said so. Audi seems to give different answers to the same question on a number of occasions. My posts always work within reason because surely losing ones temper gets one nowhere fast. As Ive said, I believe that this car was released for sale too soon without parts being in the U.S for support. I can honestly laugh at your subject line because I know you are smart enough to be able to define PRO BONO!!




greenie

Re: C'mon, both sides cool it!
 

If I can shed some light on my experiences and help someone, I will continue to do that. Isnt that the spirit of this forum?


greenie

Re: A buy back because the auto feature on the headlights doesn't work??? You're kidding right?
 

Buybeach , in a former post, mentioned a host of malfunctions to which I responeded, not merely headlight issues.



greenie

Re: Relax greenie, b/4 everyone with a software bug wants blood!
 

No, Audi , IMHO, should have spent more time pre-release on this car. Mercedes admits, or at least they admitted it to me, that they test their cars on the public and if one is a little adventurous they SHOULD buy the E-class(told to me by a MB mechanid at the dealership). This is why I cancelled and switched to Audi. Personally, I still believe that I have made a good decision even after all of these posts. Time will tell. But do not forget, these posts are merely the opinions of the posters sometimes via their own experiences. Thats all.


greenie

Re: Greenie, me thinks you hope you get another one!
 

Bro Bono? No, I think you just like a good fight!
Actually, I admire your abilities and respect your awesome experiences with lemons.

Re: More on Defective 2004 Audi A8 L(emon)
 

<center><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/59716/audi_lemon.jpg"></center><p>Look for my defective 2004 AudiA8 L(emon) with these fine magnetic signs I have on the way.

Will post actual photo of my "Black Lemon" as soon as the signs arrive...of course, assuming the car does not have a relapse and quit completely.

Re: Does it act funny with the lights in manual mode?
 

<center><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/59716/audi_lemon.jpg"></center><p>Don't know. This has happened three times now in the 400 or so miles I (rather than the servicing dealr) have managed to put on it in 7 weeks.

As this particular issue (defect) occurs intermittently, it is hard to isolate any specific circumstance that triggers it.

Re: Buyback is your L(emon) really that bad?
 

<center><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/59716/audi_lemon.jpg"></center><p>Who knows? According to dealer service technician, various "things" interact with other "things" which use a common electronic bus to communicate. Great idea! (Not).

BuyBeach, I tried to stand up for you on this thread...
 

...but you're losing me fast, brother. I hear you on the frustration level, but PERSPECTIVE!!
Hope you get your problems fixed quickly and you get back to enjoying your car.

Re: Escalate above Ron Hankley.
 

<center><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/59716/audi_lemon.jpg"></center><p>I just ordered two of these magnetic signs (see above) for the Black Lemon. I hope Audi and both local dealers enjoy seeing them at various functions coming up in the Miami region. Of course, that is, if I still own the car when they arrive. Promised for delivery in 2 days.

I would love to contact someone higher up than Mr. Hankley, but no one in Audi of America senior management replies to my posts (I email all of them to Mr. Len Hunt among others).

If you know of a way to get the attention of this unresponsive organization, please let me know.

Len Hunt, what a joke!
 

<center><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/59716/audi_lemon.jpg"></center><p>Been there, tried that. Got nowhere. Thanks Len!

Re: It's a lemon because the lights have a recurring problem?
 

It's a lemon because each and every day, in various ways, both persistent and intermittent, something or other fails to operate correctly.

The only point of interest about the light issue is that after a 200 mile (!) visit to the dealer (where on earth did they take it?) is that not a day goes by when something or other doesnot "go wrong" with the operation of this hyper-complex clunker.

Re: Actually the post wasn't very clear on one technical point.
 

<center><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/59716/audi_lemon.jpg"></center><p>I cannot demonstrate the problem in front of a dealer tech, since it is intermittent, so it does not exist (or so it seems to Audi).

Therefore no effort will/can be made to correct it.

So for my $1,000+/month, I can drive a car that, from time to time, will leave the lights on (yes, does, drains the battery). I could, I guess, simply reconcile myself to a non-functioning system (although I wanted this feature when I bought the car). But this also means anyone else allowed to drive the car has to be indoctrinated not to use the Automatic function on the headlamp control. This is, of course, nuts.

But again, if this were all the trouble I had with this clunker, I would not be whining about it on the internet or buying stick-on signs warning other buyers that these cars are not ready-for-prime-time.

thats not cool at all.
 

You can't determine if a car is a lemon in 400 miles. I'm sorry you can't.

Your attitude towards this whole thing is clearly hostile and uncooperative. There a fine line when a post and claim is made against a defective car or an inept dealership. Many people on the forum might realize that someone could very well be an irrational person who makes mountains out of molehills. Most people here gave you the benefit of the doubt, but your last string of posts with that repeating picture pretty much threw you into that category as far as I'm concerned.

Calm down and don't do anything rash. You should edit your posts and remove all those jpgs. If your car is a lemon, your public actions here on this forum could be used against you by Audi. As one A8 owner to another, everyone here is on your side! Trust me, thats the case. You'll get further by negotiating and keeping the lines of communication open.

Re: More on Defective 2004 Audi A8 L(emon)
 

The point of these signs are to get your car fixed or to discourage others from buying the same? I get the feeling that complete frustration has taken over and when that happens logic goes by the wayside. These signs will do NOTHING for you except maybe give you some sort of short-lived satisfaction. There must be SOMEONE in the zone from Audi to whom you can present your problems to who will listen and react accordingly. But calm down first.


greenie

Re: Greenie, me thinks you hope you get another one!
 

Did I say Bro? Kinda reminds me of conventoin!! LOL. A good fight? I dont care to fight. Ill leave that to others.



greenie

Re: C'mon, both sides cool it!
 

Good point and possible.


greenie

Greenie, isn't this a nice test of our fortitude?...
 

Wading through this thread with less than a month to delivery...damn, we must really want these cars bad! ;-)